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After alot of drafts and pondering, I have come up with a good list (with the help of a friend)
Anyway here it is....
-Close Order Drill
Command Squad 120pts
Heroic Senior Officer-Power weapon, Iron Disipline
Mortar, Master vox caster, plasma gun.
2x Infantry Platoons 86pts
-Command, JO, Bolt Pistol, Power weapon
3 plasmas, Vox, Die hards
-Squad A- Plasma, ML, Vox, Die hards 95pts
-Squad B- Plasma, ML, Vox, Die Hards 95pts
Armored Fist Squad 163pts
-Melta,Vox. Chimera-Multi Laser, Heavy Bolter, Smoke
Heavy Support 163pts
Hull and Sponson Heavy Bolters, Smoke, Extra Armour
By day he fought with sword and shield.....
By night he fought with pen and parchment.....
He was....The Warrior Poet.......
Fear the ANZAC Clan!!!!!
ORDER OF THE SHADOWY FLAME!!!
Do you have uber micro...????
Only two things:
1) You can get a HSO for 5 points less by equiping a Junior Officer with an Honourifica.
2)Get the plasma gun out of the HQ, you should be hiding it out of sight.
... only triumph could turn pooing his pants into a good thing..
Close order drill - Nice ability as a freebie.
Iron discipline - love it. I use it in all my command squads.
Die hards....... Ask yourelf this question: If your Infantry squad is outnumbered in CC, is this ability going to change their fate? The answer is no. Any guardsmen who is in a position to benefit from this rule is already as good as dead.
Another free doctrine is drop troops, which means you can deeps strike any infantry squad. I almost never use it, but it you have a space it's free.
Triumph is right. The HSO is a waste of 5pts if you are only buying 1, and a single mortar is useless - if you really want to field mortars, you need to put as many on the table as you possibly can as they are generaly uneffective in game: AP6? waste of a heavy weapon slot.
As Triumph says, you have maxed out your command squad, putting the plasmagun in there only makes them more of a target. Use the special weapons in your more expendable infantry command squads.
Also, your army is too small for a vox network, it's a waste of points. If they are likely to stray more than 12" from the leader, give them a veteran sergeant.
You are better off spending that money on a company standard and re-rolling morale checks within 12".
I like your command squad, loose the vox and it looks like something i would field myself, also: I tend to restrain myself and only get 2x Plasmagun, otherwise you won't have any redundancy. Don't think of the lasguns as wasted special weapons slots, think of them as cheap wounds to buffer the men that really count.
If you intend to use your command squads as a CC buffer, equip the 2 empty handed guardsmen with CC weaps. If you are using them purley as fire bases: give them a heavy weapon.
I would switch your missile launchers for lascannons: a plasmagun has Str7 AP2 Rapid fire - it's a heavy infantry killer. A missile launcher has Str8 AP3 1 shot - it's an anti-tank weapon, menaing you will generaly want to be firing them at different targets.
If you want to reclaim the easy-to-construct missile launcher models, use anti-tank squads.
The bonus is: if you loose the useless vox and die hards ability, the lascannon pays for itself.
To be honest, getting guardsmen to their destination fast is pointless if they are useless when they are there. The heavy bolter is a waste of money as it can only fire if the tank is still and you have no special weapon in there.
If you want to take the chimera: fill it with Storm troopers and give them something like Plasmaguns - or better still: Meltaguns.
If you are just filling out a troop choice then take another infantry platoon, get another command squad as a fire base, perhaps even change the weapons in your infantry squads. Rember to match the APs, I find the best weapon combos to be Plasma+Lascannon or Grenade Launcher+ Autocannon as they will generaly want to shoot at the same thing.
If you dont want to add another infantry platoon or dont have the points, use grenadiers. You have pleanty of doctrines left and it means you can take storm troopers as a troop choice and give them Plasma for fire support.
I would ditch it. The LR is a nice tank, but a single Leman Russ is a target. Make it 2+
Look at your army. You have 1 tank (the Chimera dosen't count as 10 guardsmen running into combat is laughable!), so what do you think ther AT weapons will shoot at?
If you are going to field tanks, always do them in multiples, that way you keep your enemy making difficult decisions.
Just to summarise:
Die hards is poinless, Vox is pointless
Use the money to put lascannons in your infantry squads
Don't overfill your command squads with plasma
Loose the Chimera, replace with another infantry platoon or grenadiers
Either loose the Russ or add another
Last edited by Xethemez; December 17th, 2005 at 18:25.
Originally Posted by Xethemez
I think you have misread the description given in the list Xethemez. The Chimera entry to me seems as if he has included a meltagun and vox with the troops, and the rest of the kit is what is fitted on the chimera. That heavy bolter is the one on the hull, not the one with the troops.
The rest of your suggestions are ok, although your suggestions to lose the tank are a little off putting. Sure I agree that having two russes greatly contributes to their longevity, well, one of em anyway, but simply fielding one tank can at times contribute to a win especially if you get first turn. Also, if that russ weren't there, all the AT shots would go straight for the chimera. Sure the little tank that could doesn't quite stack up to a russ, but it can provide a decent mobile weaons platform and offers screening opportunities that a smart commander will use to hinder the enemies advance.
Yes, the Armoured Fist squad was an oversight on my part.
I have to disagree about the tanks though. Tank wise I think the army needs to rethink itself.
You have a valid point about the Russ taking fire away from the Chimera. But the Chimera poses very little threat to anybody, and dosen't really deserve 163pts worth of diversion imo.
I doubt very much a guard army will be using the Chimera for screening, as all dumping a Chimera in front of your forces achives is losing your army a round of shooting, and let's face it, when combat isnt your strong suit, the last thing you want to be doing is covering the enemy's approach for a round.
Perhaps if something a bit more imposing was put in the Chimera, such as Storm Troopers it might change things, but if it is just being used as a mobile obsticle and multi-laser I think you would be better off with the squad out of it and using a different tank.
I don't think this army could quite afford 2 Russes, but perhaps a Hellhound or 2?
Also, something I forgot to mention in my last post, in 4th edition all Penetrating hits automaticaly stun, so there is no reason not to equip your tanks with extra armour.
And finaly, the upgrades you have taken on the Russ are not worth the points imo.
Extra armour is good as stated above.
Smoke launchers are good on a transport, but putting them on a Russ is not a good idea. Look at it this way: Smoke launchers mean that you sacrifice a round of shooting for the chance to downgrade penetrating hits to glancing, and you are putting it on one of the most heavily armoured tanks in the game! The Russ simply can't afford to lose the round of shooting, especialy considering it needs a roll of 6 with a lascannon to penetrate the front armour anyway.
This is a matter of taste, but I never use the sponson bolters on a BC armed Russ, as long as the tank is doing it's job you can't use them. But it is a matter of taste, some people like to spend the 10pts and Improve their dakka on the off chance that they get weapon destroyed. For me, it's just too much to pay for the outside chance that it will be useful.
Last edited by Xethemez; December 17th, 2005 at 23:20.
I quite like your list, find it well balanced.
I would keep the Russ, and the Armoured fist squad, but change a couple of things:
Chimeras are best at sitting back and shooting. Add a Stubber to the Chimera, change the Melta Gun to a HB. Let that Chimera sit back and shoot 3 S4, 6 S5, and 3 S6 shots per turn. That or start the squad out of the Chimera, and just use the Chimera on its own.
I would also drop the Plasma in the HQ, and make it a Flamer at most, in case you have to assault, but I like the mortar!
"A love for tradition has never weakened a nation, indeed it has strengthened nations in their hour of peril."
Sir Winston Churchil
I would keep the tanks. In a 1500 pt game I use a Chimera, a Russ, and a basilisk. Obviously the basilisk sits out of sight so it isn't usually targeted.
The Chimera and the Russ do just fine, the russ tends to attract the majority of fire and with AV14 it's a tough nut to crack. The Chimera is only 102 pts of mobile fire support and is there to attract some shots away from the Russ. Sometimes both tanks have copped it by the end of the game, sometimes one or neither get destroyed. Either way it doesn't matter as by that time they have usually done the damage that justifies taking them.
... only triumph could turn pooing his pants into a good thing..
Don't get me wrong, I agree that tanks are almost essential at 1500pts. I field 2-4 tanks at 1500 myself. It's just that I look at the Chimera and I don't see a role. I see the oppertunatly to buy a tank that can do something a bit more substantial. Even if there was something a bit hardier, like grenadiers in the Chimera it might justify the 1 Russ
My tactics when it comes to tanks are that 2 Russes are disproportionaly more powerful than 1.
So you field 1: it's scary - but not that scary, it can be easily supressed and the odds say it will miss more times than not.
With 2 Russes, you double the chances of the battlecannon doing something, and you halve the chances of the tank being destroyed or suppressed.
4 times more effective than 1!
OK, it's quasai-logic, but if you've ever fielded 2 Russes you will know I'm right.