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All Leman Russ tanks will have:
- Extra Armor
- Side Skirts
- Ace Gunner
- LR Tank (Hull Hvy Bolt, AT shells, Evasive Driver, Sponson Hvy Bolt)
- Same as HQ Tank
- Tech Priest and 4 Servitors
- Chimera with Multilaser
- LR Tank (Hull Hvy Bolt)
- Same as above
- Same as above
- Same as above
- Basilisk (Ind Fire, Ace Gun)
- Same as above
- Same as above
If I suspect i might be going against an Eldar or Dark Eldar player take away 1 Basilisk and give all LR Tanks Machine God.
Last edited by Laplace; January 25th, 2006 at 16:03.
It seems to me that you are WAY too doctrine heavy. You have about 375 points in doctrines. That is equivalent to 2 Leman Russes with almost 100 points left over.
For what you've used:
AT shells on your command and elite. This is good. It provides good AT capability on your BS 4 tanks.
Evasive driving seems to me to be about useless. Only half of the models assaulting will take wounds, but will still get saves. Also, the rules are sketchy about whether they take the wound before or after attacking. You might kill something with it, but your tank might be destroyed as well. It does very little to actually protect you.
Side skirts only helps if you are being shot from the side. With good positioning you can minimize or even eliminate this possibility. All the enemy should see is a wall of AV 14.
Ace gunners. Once again a good thing, but taking it everywhere is a points sink. If you roll high for the distance on the scatter, changing the direction will not help you hit what you are aiming for. Keep it on the elite/HQ so your at shells will almost garuntee a hit, but drop it everywhere else.
On a side note, the only infantry models you have are a tech priest and servitors. Everything that cannot kill your tanks will be gunning for him. Also, if I remember correctly (probably not) you have to start the turn in b2b contatct with the tank to repair it. In effect, it takes 2 turns to repair a tank. One to move into contact with it, and the second to actually repair it, all the while being shot at by half an army.
Remember the mantra of guard. Numbers first, extras second.
Thanks for the feedback seph.
Regaring your comments:
- Yeah Evasive driving is not the greatest thing. But given I would only have 20 points left, dont know what I should really spend them on. Definitely on the things to cut when tweaking the list.
- Side skirts for their points are IMO a lifesaver. The difference between a strength 6 weapon being able to glance/not glance is huge. There are PLENTY of str 6 weapons out there. Not that many Str 7+ that count as a heavy weapon or have range. And yes, you can position yourself to make yourself less vulernable to side shots, but a good player will always be able to find a flank unless I'm willing to move more than 6" which then I'm not firing my battle cannon which is kind of the point for taking a tank.
- Again, I disagree with Ace gunners. The difference in hitting on the mark is 33% compared to 55%. And if my opponent knows I'm going Ord (which will be very quickly) they will spread themselves out as much as possible. With a drift at best I'll be able to pick off 2-3 guys. My philosophy is that a shot that drifts is a shot wasted.
- Yes, essentially a repair will take 2 turns. But I plan on leaving my Chimera with him in the back somewhere. He can drive up to 12" get out next to the vehicle, then repair on the following turn. I thought about dropping him since he isnt cheap, but any tank that can't move is not a scoring unit and counts victory points for him. I have to keep him honest.
- When you are playing AC, you pretty much give up on numbers and go for quality. The problem is at the 2,000 pt threshold you don't have the points to fit in another tank and maintain the protection. Right now with my setup, I could fit in another tank, but it would only be 1 Elite tank. I could not take it as a troop because you need an HQ/Elite for every 2 Troop tanks you take. And would I rather have 1 more Elite tank and have most tanks be weaker or sacrifice that tank and have all my tanks be much much stronger? Under the old rules, you could min/max a lot of tanks in, but with the new rules you really can't.
I think your statistics are a little inflated here. Isn't it more like:Originally Posted by Laplace
For a BS 4 tank, ace gunner increases the odds of hitting increase from 66% to 77%.
For a BS 3 tank, ace gunner increases the odds of hitting increase from 50% to 58.333%.
This is significant, but you never get an increase as drastic as 33% to 55%.
More to the point, upgrades should always be analyzed in terms of what they get you vs. what additional bare-bones units would get you. Yes, side skirts increase survivability and ace gunner increases the overall number of hits you score: but are these benefits greater than those conferred by two additional Leman Russes?
Think about it this way: Ace gunner will net your your BS 4 tank one extra hit every 9 shots whereas it will net your BS 3 tank one extra hit every 12 shots. If each tank is lucky enough to fire the battle cannon every turn over six turn games, BS 4 ace gunner will net one additional hit every game and a half, whereas BS 3 ace gunner will net one additional hit every two games. A bare-bones BS 3, HB Leman Russ will generate 3 hits every game under the same circumstances. This makes a bare-bones BS 3 Leman Russ 4.5 times more effective than a BS 4 Ace Gunner and *six times* more effective than a BS 3 Ace Gunner. This means that you're spending 112.5 points on BS 4 Ace Gunners (or 150 points on BS 3 Ace Gunners!) to equal the fire output of a simple LR with HB. And this doesn't even begin to assess the additional value of having an additional tank on the table. Under this light, ignoring the survivability issue, ace gunner is an okay buy at BS 4, but a bad buy at BS 3. Considering survivability, it doesn't seem a good buy at either value.
Last edited by IGFreely; January 27th, 2006 at 17:04.
Ordnance shots have nothing to to do with BS. You could have a BS of 0 and still just roll to scatter die.Originally Posted by IGFreely
The Ace Gunner says that you can reroll the scatter die if you don't hit the bullseye. That translates from a 1 in 3 chance to a 5 in 9 chance. And since for tanks you want to be firing the Ord just about every turn, that is a huge boost.
The point is if I wanted more traditional shots of Heavy Bolters, Lascannons, etc. I wouldn't go with Armored Company. The strength with AC is that you rain gobs of Ordanance shots into the enemy from long range on platforms that are very durable.
I agree. If I remeber, the scatter dice has two "hits", so re-rolling for the the chance seems very very worth it. But as I begin my own AC of sorts, the table and dice will tell.
Obviously it would depend greatly on the layout of your army on the table, but suppose your opponent flies or drops troops immeadiatly behind your tank with powerful enough weapons, would you have any possible defence with an all tank army?
Dont get me wrong, i love the idea and i am currently considering something similar so its a great learning experience reading threads like these, but i cant help but think about how vulnerable such an army could be if the opponent uses placement of troops to his advantage.
Food for thought.