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  1. #1
    I am a free man! number6's Avatar
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    2000 pts vs all comers

    I've been playing lots of games at the 750pt - 1500 pt level, but technically have enough models to field a larger list. I'd like to try games at the 2000 pt level, but am not sure if what I currently own is up to snuff. Here's my first attempt at making a viable 2000 pt list with the models I possess. Ideally, I'd like to not have to buy anything else.

    HQ [430 pts]
    ----------
    Grand Master, psycannon ...
    ... 5 Terminator retinue, 1x psycannon

    Elite [230 pts]
    ----------
    Inquisitor, psycannon, teleport homer (goes with IST troops)
    Inquisitor, psycannon (goes with IST troops)
    Callidus Assassin

    Troops [478 pts]
    ----------
    8 ISTs, 2x plasma guns ...
    .... Chimera transport, turret multilaser, hull heavy bolter, extra armor, smoke launchers
    9 Grey Knights + 1 Justicar, teleport homer

    Fast Attack [534 pts]
    ----------
    9 Grey Knights + 1 Justicar
    10 Seraphim, 2x hand flamers, vet. superior w/power weapon and purity seals

    Heavy Support [328 pts]
    ----------
    Lance Orbital Strike
    Dreadnought, assault cannon, extra armor, smoke launchers
    Dreadnought, twin-linked lascannon, missile launcher

    Total pts: 2000

    Last edited by number6; February 8th, 2006 at 06:36.
    ninjabackhand: point and click, again, really? even after i give you an military term "shock tactic" you still call it point and click.
    RIP Warhammer 40,000: 21 Sep 1998 - 24 May 2014

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  3. #2
    Senior Member Phoenix Guard 1988's Avatar
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    8 (x1)

    Grand Master, psycannon ...
    ... 5 Terminator retinue, 1x psycannon
    I think that the 2 psycannons are an expensive waste, just 1 for the GM is plenty.

    Inquisitor, psycannon, teleport homer (goes with IST troops)
    Inquisitor, psycannon (goes with IST troops)
    First off, only 1 character can join a unit. Second, as before, I think that these psycannons are an expensive waste. It would be much cheaper to just give your ISTs a vet. sgt. and then give him the homer, but if you really want the Inquisitor, I would just give him a bolter instead of the cannon.

    8 ISTs, 2x plasma guns ...
    .... Chimera transport, turret multilaser, hull heavy bolter, extra armor, smoke launchers
    From you giving the Inquisitor that was supposed to go with this squad a teleport homer, I assume that you will be moving this unit around. For that, I think that the Rhino is a lot better than the Chimera because it is cheaper, has side armour, and looks less imposing on the battlefield.

    9 Grey Knights + 1 Justicar, teleport homer
    Try to get another squad of troops so you can DS these.

    Lance Orbital Strike
    Dreadnought, assault cannon, extra armor, smoke launchers
    Dreadnought, twin-linked lascannon, missile launcher
    Right now, you only have a single anti-tank unit, the 2nd dreadnought here. I would make the first dreadnought an anti-tank dreadnought as well and would drop the orbital strike. With the points you save from this and other things around the list, you should be able to maybe even fit a 3rd anti-tank dreadnought in.
    1500 years ago everybody knew the Earth was the center of the Universe
    500 years ago everybody knew the world was flat
    5 minutes ago you knew humans were alone on the planet
    Imagine what you'll know tomorrow

    Imagine-John Lennon

  4. #3
    durus Diggums Hammer's Avatar
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    178 (x7)

    I really like the list nUMBER6.

    I, like you have another Psycannon in my Retinue.

    I like your elites.

    I like your Fast Attack. I love Seraphim.

    The only thing I'm not hot on is the Orbital Strike, but I have to admit not to using it much.

    I like to have one small shooty PAGK squad with two Psycannons, and add an Inquisitor to it. Perhaps pull the IST squad for this? This squad has amazed me in almost every game.

    Cheers!
    "A love for tradition has never weakened a nation, indeed it has strengthened nations in their hour of peril."
    Sir Winston Churchil

  5. #4
    I am a free man! number6's Avatar
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    Thanks for the good advice, both of you. It may be that I should avoid a big game 'til I get more models, after all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix Guard 1988
    First off, only 1 character can join a unit.
    Is that really true? I couldn't find any rule prohibiting multiple characters joining a unit, although characters joining other characters alone is prohibited. If you're right, however, there's no question but I would drop one of the Inquisitors. Otherwise, I was thinking that it would be a considerable additional punch to the IST unit (see below).

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix Guard 1988
    From you giving the Inquisitor that was supposed to go with this squad a teleport homer, I assume that you will be moving this unit around. For that, I think that the Rhino is a lot better than the Chimera because it is cheaper, has side armour, and looks less imposing on the battlefield.
    You're right about the Rhino. In truth, I intend to get one someday and stuff a squad of ISTs in there with meltas, and they will get the TP homer.

    What I am hoping to do with the unit I have is drive the Chimera to a good spot and set up a firebase. (The TP homer is more like a "just in case I can't prevent them from being assaulted" item here.) I understand that this can work well (yes? no?), but I only just got the Chimera and ISTs a few weeks ago, so I have limited practical experience with them yet. Whether or not I keep them as is in this list, I'd be interested to hear tactical advice on how to use such a unit, as I've seen similar builds in other lists in the forum, and it intrigues me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix Guard 1988
    Right now, you only have a single anti-tank unit, the 2nd dreadnought here. I would make the first dreadnought an anti-tank dreadnought as well and would drop the orbital strike. With the points you save from this and other things around the list, you should be able to maybe even fit a 3rd anti-tank dreadnought in.
    I may do this. Though I've got the arms, I've never actually used the AC/DCCW, only the TLLC/ML builds, and I'm quite comfortable with that setup. But so many people here swear by the AC/DCCW, even for anti-armor, I thought maybe I should try it. It also has the advantage of being cheaper, points-wise. Again, tactical advice would be helpful, as I do struggle mightily against one regular opponent with lots of tough armor.

    I've never once used an orbital strike, but the boards my friends play on often have lots of terrain, usually including a river and/or road, too! So it seemed (a) cheap, (b) a handy high-powered ordinance blast, something I'd otherwise lack, and (c) tactically useful. I admit to being leery of spending 70 points on something that not many people use or say good things about ... so a third dreadnought might be the very first thing I should put on my list.

    Quote Originally Posted by Diggums Hammer
    I like your Fast Attack. I love Seraphim.
    Most definitely! My unit of Seraphim always, ALWAYS earn way more than their points back. This is the only non-negotiable unit in the list. I love the Grey Knight/Seraphim combo possible by playing Daemonhunters.

    Quote Originally Posted by Diggums Hammer
    I like to have one small shooty PAGK squad with two Psycannons, and add an Inquisitor to it. Perhaps pull the IST squad for this? This squad has amazed me in almost every game.
    I've been reading your raves about that. What always steers me away from that build is the fact that I hate the idea of walking them into position and losing the range on the psycannons, probably wasting the turn for shooting, and also having a unit of GKs -- so sweet in assaults -- not doing much assaulting.

    So ... how do you do it? How do you get a small unit of psycannon-wielding GKs into a good position and hold them there long enough to get some shots off? I play on boards with enough terrain that sight lines are hard to come by, especially off the deployment zones. The main reason I invested in the ISTs/Chimera was under the optimistic scenario that I could quickly get a unit of shooters into a position near the center of the board where there's more opportunities, and therefore more chances to shoot-to-kill.
    ninjabackhand: point and click, again, really? even after i give you an military term "shock tactic" you still call it point and click.
    RIP Warhammer 40,000: 21 Sep 1998 - 24 May 2014

  6. #5
    durus Diggums Hammer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by number6
    I've been reading your raves about that. What always steers me away from that build is the fact that I hate the idea of walking them into position and losing the range on the psycannons, probably wasting the turn for shooting, and also having a unit of GKs -- so sweet in assaults -- not doing much assaulting.

    So ... how do you do it? How do you get a small unit of psycannon-wielding GKs into a good position and hold them there long enough to get some shots off? I play on boards with enough terrain that sight lines are hard to come by, especially off the deployment zones. The main reason I invested in the ISTs/Chimera was under the optimistic scenario that I could quickly get a unit of shooters into a position near the center of the board where there's more opportunities, and therefore more chances to shoot-to-kill.
    I find that I can always get a good enough set-up in cover in my normal deployment zones for the 36" range. Sometimes towards the end of the game I have to walk them, but generally I set them up once and that is good enough for most of the game. With this squad, the Shrouding has worked quite well.

    I like the Chimera/IST squad in Cleanse games, but for games that use the long table edges (which is most), a shooty PAGK is awesome.

    Cheers!
    "A love for tradition has never weakened a nation, indeed it has strengthened nations in their hour of peril."
    Sir Winston Churchil

  7. #6
    Senior Member Captain Snowball's Avatar
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    First off, i am soooooo gla to finally see someone else using the beautiful models that are the seraphim, however i would suggest dropping the psycannon on the terminator models and using the points to give the seraphim inferno pistols.

    I know the range on them is less but i, personally, use the seraphim as a dreadnought/light tank hunting unit. With their jetpacks they can chase them down and assault them, in close range the inferno pistols have a 2D6 ap value.

    Be careful how you use the callidus. Make good use of her polymorphine and make her every attack count. I personally use her as a character hunter or enemy inquisitors. she really needs to strike quickly because with her simple save (i know it's invulnerable but it's not everything) she can be subsequently shot apart.

    Excellent choice in equiping the IST with plasma guns as they are usually able to take out a terminator with a single shot.

    I would suggest dropping the orbital strike as they are rarely on target and are a waste of points.

    Also, what role do you have for the dreadnoughts? I would either equip both with assault cannons, close combat weapons and incinerators OR missile launchers and TLLC. Also, may i suggest keeping them together as that way you arn't relying on the survivability of just one to fulfill a specific task and you have a back up.
    I would prefer to see them as long range tank busta's as you seem to be short on tank busting units anyway.

    Hope i have helped,

    Regards

  8. #7
    I am a free man! number6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain.Snowball
    First off, i am soooooo gla to finally see someone else using the beautiful models that are the seraphim, however i would suggest dropping the psycannon on the terminator models and using the points to give the seraphim inferno pistols.

    I know the range on them is less but i, personally, use the seraphim as a dreadnought/light tank hunting unit. With their jetpacks they can chase them down and assault them, in close range the inferno pistols have a 2D6 ap value.
    I just think Seraphim are best used as assault troops. It may seem reduntant in an army with GKs, but the Seraphim offer three things that GKs don't: (a) SPEED! Far and away the most important attribute, and the one I think DH need the most. (b) Templates. Yes, I could get incinerators, but then I spend points to give up NFW/storm bolter/True Grit. And I hate doing that, except under very limited circumstances. (I'm mulling over Diggums Hammer's suggestion of a small, shooty PAGK squad.) (c) AP weapons in the form of Divine Guidance. Yes, I only get one use of it, but that is more than enough to wipe out any -- and I do mean any -- unit I've put these girls up against. I use the Seraphim to take out the biggest threat on the board right away while the rest of my army gets into position. They may die in the process, but if they don't, they can be used to assault someone else, or take on light tanks, even equipped as I have them. Every model comes with krak grenades! There was one game against Orks where, after two successful assaults -- and two eliminated enemy squads -- I was left with three Seraphim, who then went and took out a pair of killa kans with their krak grenades.

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain.Snowball
    Be careful how you use the callidus. Make good use of her polymorphine and make her every attack count. I personally use her as a character hunter or enemy inquisitors. she really needs to strike quickly because with her simple save (i know it's invulnerable but it's not everything) she can be subsequently shot apart.
    Duly noted. She is difficult to use properly, but fun. I intend to do just what you suggest.

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain.Snowball
    Excellent choice in equiping the IST with plasma guns as they are usually able to take out a terminator with a single shot.
    Exactly why they're there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain.Snowball
    I would suggest dropping the orbital strike as they are rarely on target and are a waste of points.

    Also, what role do you have for the dreadnoughts? I would either equip both with assault cannons, close combat weapons and incinerators OR missile launchers and TLLC. Also, may i suggest keeping them together as that way you arn't relying on the survivability of just one to fulfill a specific task and you have a back up.
    I would prefer to see them as long range tank busta's as you seem to be short on tank busting units anyway.
    I think you're right. I think I'll continue sticking with with only the TLLC/ML builds for my dreads, as I have more than enough assault troops in the form of two GK squads and Seraphim. I'll have to experiment with the orbital strike until I obtain a third dreadnought, but another dread will be the goal.

    Phoenix Guard 1988 recommended three dreads, all with TLLC/ML. Would you also recommend that, or should I have some variety and use one with AC/DCCW?

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain.Snowball
    Hope i have helped
    Yes indeed. You all have. Thanks.
    Last edited by number6; February 10th, 2006 at 17:53.
    ninjabackhand: point and click, again, really? even after i give you an military term "shock tactic" you still call it point and click.
    RIP Warhammer 40,000: 21 Sep 1998 - 24 May 2014

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