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  1. #1
    Senior Member Seth the Dark's Avatar
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    First Time 1850 pt Doctrine IG

    Look at the new list down 4 posts.

    Last edited by Seth the Dark; March 28th, 2006 at 08:13.
    "They say the Darkness consumes you. They don't say what happens after It's done."

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  3. #2
    Senior Member MTG Guru's Avatar
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    Your list lacks serious anti tank capability. 3 infantry squads with meltaguns and your vet squad with two meltaguns definitely do not cut it. At 1850, expect to see tanks/dreads etc. At least two, probably more! You will be wanting about 6 or so Lascannons in there somewhere in order to be able to deal with anything that has armour. The way your list stands, you'd be lucky to even pop a sentinal at range.

    Other points in general:
    1. Powerfists on officers are bad. See my argument here.
    2.Medics are generally wasted points in any army list. Their ability is rarely usefull, and you probably dont want your HQ being shot at anyway.
    3. Your HSO has far too much wargear. You could almost buy an entire squad for the price of his wargear.. and the squad will be more usefull too!
    4. A special weapons squad with sniper rifles is probably less usefull than say a fire support squad of heavy bolters. Similar in points, the heavy bolters will do far more damage. Combing close combat weapons with sniper rifles seems a little strange to me also. Final point, sharpshooters doesn't work with sniper rifles.
    5. Generally, squads take a vox OR a vet sargeant. While having both can be good in some situations, it is generally points better spent elsewhere.
    6. One demolisher is generally enough. A standard leman russ or basilisk is a far better choice as the extra range on their main weapons is often extremely important.
    7. Your vet squad is a little all over the shop. You should pick a role for it and specialise to make the most of this great unit. If you want to tank hunt, take 5men with 3 meltas and the drop troops doctrine. If you want to kill marines, 3 plasma guns and a missile launcher will do the job in a 10 man squad. If you want to get a unit thats good in close combat.... use grey knights! :ninja:
    8. Final point.. get some heavy weapons!! You dont have any and in a guard army.. that is bad!
    What Guardsmen dont want to hear...
    "Ok boys, time to fix bayonets!"

  4. #3
    Senior Member Seth the Dark's Avatar
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    Thank you for the advice! I'm going to implement pretty much all of the points that you made. The main point of my army is to overwhelm my opponent at short range.
    "They say the Darkness consumes you. They don't say what happens after It's done."

  5. #4
    Senior Member hardcastle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seth the Dark
    Thank you for the advice! I'm going to implement pretty much all of the points that you made. The main point of my army is to overwhelm my opponent at short range.
    Its nice to have a "idea" in your head how the army will work, but at close range isnt were IG excel at. u want to keep the enemy as far away as u can and try and shoot the pieces out of him. using 12" range melta guns for anti tank just aint going to cut it.


    not much else to say as GURU already pointed out the flaws of the army lists. and the proper recomendations.

  6. #5
    Senior Member Seth the Dark's Avatar
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    Well this is the new version of my list. Its either this or another one I'm working on that will replace the Leman Russ' and include more infantry. What do you guys think?

    Doctrines: Light Infantry, Sharpshooters, Special Weapon Squads, Iron Discipline, Drop Troops

    HQ
    Command Squad 482 pts
    Junior Officer
    - Iron Discipline
    - Laspitol, Power Weapon
    - Carapace Armor, Medallion Crimson, Honorifica Imperialis

    - 4 Guardsman (1 Vet, 3 Regular)
    - Standard Bearer, Master Vox Caster, 4x Lasguns

    Anti-Tank Squad 1
    - Sharpshooters
    - 3x Lascannon

    Anti-Tank Squad 2
    - Sharpshooters
    - 3x Missile Launchers

    Special Weapon Squad 1
    - Drop Troops
    - Demolition Charge, 2x Flamer, 3x Lasguns

    Special Weapon Squad 2
    - Drop Troops
    - Demolition Charge, 2x Flamer, 3x Lasguns

    Elite
    4 Hardened Veterans 80 pts
    - Drop Troops
    - 3x Meltaguns, 1 Lasgun
    - Veteran Sergeant (LP, Power Weapon)

    Troops
    Platoon 1 481 pts
    Command Squad
    - Light Infantry
    - Junior Officer (LP, Power Weapon)
    - 4 Guardsmen (Flamer, Melta Gun, 2x Lasguns)

    Infantry Squad 1.1
    - Light Infantry
    - Vox Caster, 8x Lasguns, Grenade Launcher
    - Sergeant (CCW, LP)

    Infantry Squad 1.2
    - Light Infantry
    - Vox Caster, 8x Lasguns, Grenade Launcher
    - Sergeant (CCW, LP)

    Infantry Squad 1.3
    - Light Infantry
    - Vox Caster, 8x Lasguns, Grenade Launcher
    - Sergeant (CCW, LP)

    Infantry Squad 1.4
    - Light Infantry
    - Vox Caster, 8x Lasguns, Grenade Launcher
    - Sergeant (CCW, LP)

    Remnant Squad
    - Light Infantry, Sharpshooters
    - Vox Caster, 3x Lasguns, Plasma Gun
    - Veteran Sergeant (Plasma Pistol, CCW, Surveyor)

    Platoon 2 481 pts
    Command Squad
    - Light Infantry
    - Junior Officer (LP, Power Weapon)
    - 4 Guardsmen (Flamer, Melta Gun, 2x Lasguns)

    Infantry Squad 2.1
    - Light Infantry
    - Vox Caster, 8x Lasguns, Grenade Launcher
    - Sergeant (CCW, LP)

    Infantry Squad 2.2
    - Light Infantry
    - Vox Caster, 8x Lasguns, Grenade Launcher
    - Sergeant (CCW, LP)

    Infantry Squad 2.3
    - Light Infantry
    - Vox Caster, 8x Lasguns, Grenade Launcher
    - Sergeant (CCW, LP)

    Infantry Squad 2.4
    - Light Infantry
    - Vox Caster, 8x Lasguns, Grenade Launcher
    - Sergeant (CCW, LP)

    Remnant Squad
    - Light Infantry, Sharpshooters
    - Vox Caster, 3x Lasguns, Plasma Gun
    - Veteran Sergeant (Plasma Pistol, CCW, Surveyor)

    Heavy Support
    Leman Russ 163 pts
    - Hull Heavy Bolter, Sponson Heavy Bolter
    - Extra Armor, Smoke Launchers

    Leman Russ 163 pts
    - Hull Heavy Bolter, Sponson Heavy Bolter
    - Extra Armor, Smoke Launchers

    Grand Total: 1850 pts
    "They say the Darkness consumes you. They don't say what happens after It's done."

  7. #6
    Senior Member hardcastle's Avatar
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    honestly? i think you will get crushed on the battle field.

    still not enough anti tank.

    Your platoon leaders have a flamer and a meltagun, those weapons are to fill totally differnt rolls and shouldnt be together.

  8. #7
    Dawn Under Heaven Triumph Of Man's Avatar
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    Hmmm, actually his anti tank department is fine. 3 rockets, 3 lascannons and assorted meltaguns are going to do fine. Don't forget the leman russes can do the job if need be.

    Only gripe is that grenade launchers are very ineffective weapons. I'd find 16 points and bump them all up to plasmaguns.


    Karmoon
    ... only triumph could turn pooing his pants into a good thing..

  9. #8
    Senior Member hardcastle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triumph Of Man
    Hmmm, actually his anti tank department is fine. 3 rockets, 3 lascannons and assorted meltaguns are going to do fine. Don't forget the leman russes can do the job if need be.

    Only gripe is that grenade launchers are very ineffective weapons. I'd find 16 points and bump them all up to plasmaguns.
    6 anti tank guns to me arent enough, 50% will hit there targets. so now u are down to 3 hits per turn to kill MEQ @ range. not enough for me.

    Nevermind its all in on basket, if the enemy takes out one of those squads his anti tank will be saverly crippled.

  10. #9
    Dawn Under Heaven Triumph Of Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardcastle
    6 anti tank guns to me arent enough, 50% will hit there targets. so now u are down to 3 hits per turn to kill MEQ @ range. not enough for me.

    Nevermind its all in on basket, if the enemy takes out one of those squads his anti tank will be saverly crippled.
    You're forgetting about three other squads armed with meltaguns, let alone the fact that it is very easy for drop troop armies such as this to blast side and rear with the grenade launchers. The penetration factor will definitely be upped if he takes my suggestion and upgrades those GLs to PGs.


    Karmoon
    ... only triumph could turn pooing his pants into a good thing..

  11. #10
    Senior Member MTG Guru's Avatar
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    I know what you are saying Hardcastle, but dont get anti tank weapons confused with anti meq weapons. His list has 2 anti tank squads and a suicide squad of three melta toting vets. In my opinion this will probably be enough to tackle a standard/balanced list. As Triumph said, in a pinch the russes can be used to hit tanks as can drop trooping demo charges. All in all, his anti tank capability is just about right.
    The anti meq potential of this list is a little lower than needed, however again, two russes and two drop trooping demo charges can, with a little luck, kill close to 4 entire squads. While demo charges are a bit hit and miss, when they hit they certainly do hit! Add in the fact that a couple of flamers will certainly force a marine squad to make saves, and you have a fairly effective unit. Even if it only kills half a squad, you most definitely earnt your points back.
    Regarding the line squads and grenade launchers.. while I actually am a fan of the humble grenade launcher, I think the list has too many and not enough plasma. You should probably take at least a 50/50 mix of squads with plasma guns and squads with grenade launchers. I would take all plasma seeing as 99.99% of my opponents are meq players. Speaking of plasma, your remnant squads have two plasma weapons and the sharpshooters doctrine. Just like sniper rifles, plasma weapons do not benefit from the sharp shooters doctrine. Dropping this doctrine from these remnant squads would therefore leave you enough points to upgrade your grenade launchers to plasma guns, if you end up wanting to do this. Consider putting the grenade launchers into your command squads. I usually put two or three here and give the JO a storm bolter. This way you have a small unit that can move, fire numerous high strength shots at 24 inches, and due to its small size, is often ignored as low priority by many players. If you really, really want grenade launchers in line squads, I'd also upgrade all your sargeants to vet sargeants and equip them with storm bolters also. This way you have the advantage of a large wound squad that can move and still fire its best 3 shots at max range. In this scenario you also wont need to use a vox network as your vet sarge's leadership should be enough.
    Overall, this list is much better than your original. Keep the russes in, they are awesome units that every guard army should run in my opinion. Very cost effective for what they can potentially do. Good job.
    What Guardsmen dont want to hear...
    "Ok boys, time to fix bayonets!"

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