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  1. #1
    Junior Member dragonkeeper117's Avatar
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    New to Game, 500 point

    i havnt decided on a chapter yet

    HQ:
    Commander (Plasma pistol, Lighting Claw) 95

    Troops:
    6x Tactical (Bolters, Serg with Pistol and CCW ) 96
    6x Tactical (Bolters, Serg with Pistol and CCW) 96
    5x Scouts (5 sniper rifles, 1 missle luancher) 105

    Fast Attack:
    5x Assualt (Bolt Pistol and CCW) 110

    the basic idea is assualt and pick off, it should come out to 500pts
    plz feel free to tear apart, change, the list
    also feel free to post a army list if you think i should change my direction

    To those who oppose me I grant them a fabulous death

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  3. #2
    Senior Member Archaon's Avatar
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    HQ

    For a new army I'd consider buying a Chaplain instead of using a Commander.
    Chaplains come with a Power Weapon and an Invunerable as standard and only really need a Bolt pistol added to them to round them off.
    This saves on points so you can chuck in more marines.

    Your Commander is ok, however rather expensive for a small 500 point game. Comes out at a round 100 points.
    Lightning claws are only every really worth their while in pairs. If not in pairs you don't get that extra attack in close combat for having 2 weapons (ie: 1 Claw + Pistol, doesn't count as 2 CCWs). I'd reccomend changing this to a simple power weapon, cheap and simple. Fists are viable options too, however you'd lose the highest I that your army has. A humble power weapon makes any HQ unit a threat.
    A Plasma pistol is costly addition to a HQ unit, both in points and risk. Failing a 'Gets Hot' roll is never fun. Instead use a standard bolt pistol, you still get the extra CC attack but its much cheaper and no risk.

    Either that or switch him to a Chaplain with a Bolt Pistol.

    [1] Commander
    +Bolt pistol
    +Power weapon
    = 76

    [1] Chaplain Reclusiarch
    +Bolt Pistol
    = 86

    The difference between the two is only 10 points. So its up to you to decide which special rules you want to use, either 'Rites of Battle' that the Captain gives or 'Honour of the Chapter' and 'Litanies of Hate'. Also remember that the Chaplain comes with a Invunerable save from his Rosarius!

    Troops

    You be glad to know that your Scouts only come to 95 points

    [5] Scouts
    +4 Sniper Rifles
    +1 Missile Launcher
    = 95

    And your Marines come out at 95 points

    [5] Marines
    [1] Sergeant
    + Bolt pistol, Close Combat Weapon
    = 95

    [5] Marines
    [1] Sergeant
    + Bolt pistol, Close Combat Weapon
    = 95

    Fast Attack

    [5] Assault Marines
    = 110

    Total points = 471/481 (Depending on your HQ choice)

    The Core of the army look ok, the only real way to get insight into the core of your SM army is to play it. Different people have different opinions.

    Good Luck with your SM! May you smite many a foe.

    (If you are starting SM, 2 Boxes of Tactical marines, The Commander Box (Or a metal HQ of your choice and a Assault SM Box is a good way to start IMO)
    Archaon's Top Tip for profiting from the End Time: Pillage before you burn

    When I say jump you don't ask me 'How high?' maggot! You jump!

  4. #3
    LO Zealot Chaosbrynn's Avatar
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    Welcome to LO and 40k. Im glad you stopped by, we have much to teach you.

    Quote Originally Posted by dragonkeeper117
    i havnt decided on a chapter yet
    Not to worry, its best you get an idea of how the game works and what parts you like before choosing a chapter anyways.

    Quote Originally Posted by dragonkeeper117
    HQ:
    Commander (Plasma pistol, Lighting Claw) 95
    As was mentioned, lightning claws are only good in pairs. Plasma pistols arent that great on your IC as a) mostly he will be in close combat, so you will never get 2 shots off with it and b) nothing worse then killing your leader when the plasma pistol gets hot. a bolt pistol would do you much better.

    A chaplain really is the way to go. ESPECIALLY in low point games like this. They are a bargain. In 40k close combat, it almost always comes down to 2 things. Weapons that ignore armor saves and invulnerable save (wich generally cant be ignored). The chaplain comes with both. In addition, his abilities really lend themselves well to a low point game where as the other HQ's lean more towards larger games. I highly recommend going with a chaplain.


    Quote Originally Posted by dragonkeeper117
    Troops:
    6x Tactical (Bolters, Serg with Pistol and CCW ) 96
    6x Tactical (Bolters, Serg with Pistol and CCW) 96
    5x Scouts (5 sniper rifles, 1 missle luancher) 105
    We have a lot of tacticas here and I would definately recommend reading them. Especially the tactical squad tactica. Your squads as is arent vey effective.

    First off, I would drop the sc outs. Sniper rifles are only really effective in large nunmbers (7 or more) and even then only effective at dealing with high toughness models. They are pretty useless in such a small game. I wouldnt bother with them yet.

    Next, your tactical squads. Tactical squads should be given a job. In general, there are 2 "jobs" for a tactical squad to do.

    1) Provide fire support. These are generally small tactical squads (5 or 6 men) wich are given a heavy weapon and a special weapon. Due to range and some other factors (all explained in the tactica) your best bet is a lascannon and a plasma gun for these squads. They provide good firepower for few points and are solid enough to withstand a couple barrages.

    2) Provide close combat support. Optimally you want full squads for close combat with powerfisted sergeants and a melta gun. The tactical squad tactica and the powerfist tactica explain why.

    In any case, either way your tactical squads need some heavy or special weapons or powerfisted sergeants depending on what your going to do with them.

    As a side note, the 1 extra normal attack from the BP and CCW on the sergeant isnt worth as much as the extra shots you get from having a bolter at ranges between 12" and 24". I mean really, at least the bolter has an AP value. normal attacks dont.

    Quote Originally Posted by dragonkeeper117
    Fast Attack:
    5x Assualt (Bolt Pistol and CCW) 110
    Ok, like I mentioned before, weapons that ignore armor saves is what win close combats. Any dedicated close combat squad should have one. Secondly, on sergeants a powerfist is always better then a pwerweapon. Check out the powerfist tactica for the explanation. Odd, you placed a plasma pistol on your HQ, but ddnt place any in your assault squad. They cost 1/3rd the point sin assault squads and you dont risk losing a nearly hundred point model. I would definately add 2 here.

    Quote Originally Posted by dragonkeeper117
    the basic idea is assualt and pick off, it should come out to 500pts
    plz feel free to tear apart, change, the list
    also feel free to post a army list if you think i should change my direction
    We have a lot of work to do on your list. Fortunately your in the right place to do it. Well have you up and running with a good list in no time. One thing I would recommend is an LST. They are arguably the best unit in the SM codex and they comletely own the world of low point games.

    All tacticas can be found in the "index of space marine articles and FAQ's in the main SM forum. I highlly recommend reading them all.

    Cheers Mate!
    Chaosbrynn
    Mentor of Space Marine Commanders far and wide.

    Efficiency VS Point Cost VS Ease Of Use - Your best bets:

    1) Chaplain led Assault squad - 2 plasma pistols, powerfisted sergeant

    2) 8 man Devastator squad - 4 missile launchers

    3) Land Speeder Tornado - HB + AC

  5. #4
    Junior Member dragonkeeper117's Avatar
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    ok so i change HQs to a chaplin,
    i am assuming LST is a Land Speeder, dropping assault squad?
    Land Speeder Torando with melt, flamer assualt cannon is *pts unless i read the rules wrong
    or
    Land Speeder Typhoon with missle for *pts

    so which one?
    Last edited by Chaosbrynn; April 7th, 2006 at 23:52.
    To those who oppose me I grant them a fabulous death

  6. #5
    LO Zealot Chaosbrynn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dragonkeeper117
    i am assuming LST is a Land Speeder, dropping assault squad?
    LST = Land Speeder Tornado. Arguably the best unit SM have when equipped with an HB + AC.

    Assault squads are pricey for a 500 point game. Normally in small battles SM use firepower to draw the enemy to them with a small close combat unit to meet them when they get there and some maneuverable firepower to take care of any suprises.

    Quote Originally Posted by dragonkeeper117
    Land Speeder Torando with melt, flamer assualt cannon is 105pts unless i read the rules wrong
    You definately read wrong. Speeders can only have 2 weapons. The Assault cannon is SO effective on a speeder it is pointless to take any of the other variants. AC + HB = you win. Remember that.

    Quote Originally Posted by dragonkeeper117
    Land Speeder Typhoon with missle for *pts
    Oh god just stay away from these. Also, posting point values of units is against forum rules. Total for squads is ok (and if you only have one model in a squad you can get away with posting its cost) but in general, try not to give away the point values of GW copyright property. We can get in trouble for that. Please be sure to read LO's posting rules.
    Mentor of Space Marine Commanders far and wide.

    Efficiency VS Point Cost VS Ease Of Use - Your best bets:

    1) Chaplain led Assault squad - 2 plasma pistols, powerfisted sergeant

    2) 8 man Devastator squad - 4 missile launchers

    3) Land Speeder Tornado - HB + AC

  7. #6
    Junior Member dragonkeeper117's Avatar
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    Chaplain Reclusiarch (Bolt Pistol) 86
    6x Tactical (Bolters, Serg with Pistol and CCW ) 95
    6x Tactical (Bolters, Serg with Pistol and CCW) 95
    5x Scouts (5 sniper rifles, 1 missle luancher) 105
    1x LST (HB, AC) 80
    451

    is the curennt list
    what else needs to be changed?
    To those who oppose me I grant them a fabulous death

  8. #7
    Senior Member DEADMARSH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dragonkeeper117
    Chaplain Reclusiarch (Bolt Pistol) 86
    6x Tactical (Bolters, Serg with Pistol and CCW ) 95
    6x Tactical (Bolters, Serg with Pistol and CCW) 95
    5x Scouts (5 sniper rifles, 1 missle luancher) 105
    1x LST (HB, AC) 80
    451

    is the curennt list
    what else needs to be changed?

    It's probably just a typo, but you've got a problem with your scouts- 5 snipers + 1 ML = 6 scouts, not five.

    Once you get that straightened out, think about a jump pack for the chaplain. If you've still got some points to spend, terminator honors will give him another no armor save power weapon attack in close combat which he can re-roll if it misses in the first round.
    We all carry on,
    When our brothers in arms are gone.
    So raise your glass high
    For tomorrow we die,
    And return from the ashes you call.

  9. #8
    Junior Member dragonkeeper117's Avatar
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    if i were to drop the scouts if they dont work as i intend, what would i drop them for more marines?, or something else
    To those who oppose me I grant them a fabulous death

  10. #9
    Junior Member dragonkeeper117's Avatar
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    what weapon should i give my chaplin
    To those who oppose me I grant them a fabulous death

  11. #10
    Ghost of LO ForgedInTheFurnaceOfWar's Avatar
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    Slow down mate, one step at a time.

    Chaplain Reclusiarch (Bolt Pistol) 86
    Your chaplain here is pretty good for 500 points. Keep in mind that hes already armed with a 4+ invunerable save, and a 3+ armor save. Now that youve given him a bolt pistol, youve got the basics of a chaplain, there only one more thing you really need, thats frag grenades. Any HQ not in terminator armor should have frags.

    6x Tactical (Bolters, Serg with Pistol and CCW ) 95
    6x Tactical (Bolters, Serg with Pistol and CCW) 95
    Alright as chaos had mentioned these guys need some more weapons. Ask your local store with GW products to show you where you can pick up 2 lascannon blisters, and 2 plasma gun blisters. They should be easily findable. But they will run you around 35 dollars. That said, they are well worth it. Youll also get a few extra space marines out of the deal, but keep your squads 6 man.

    They will look like this: Tactical squad, 6 Marines, 1 holding a lascannon, 1 holding plasma gun, sgt holding bolter, no other upgrades.

    Make two of those squads.

    5x Scouts (5 sniper rifles, 1 missle luancher) 105
    Again as chaos had said, remove these, unfortantly scouts just dont proform like space marines. Given all the other things youve got, you dont need more shootying anyway at this point, what you need is a squad to accompany your chaplain.

    Now, how long are you planning on staying at 500 points? that pretty low for most players, your average game is 1500, other common points limits are 1000, and 1850.

    Anyway, it will save you money to build this army for larger point cost games, over all. But if you dont mind spending a little more now, it might make your list slighty better.

    Chaplain, Reclusiarch, bolt pistol, frags, 87
    Command Squad, 8 man, Veteran sgt with powerfist. 150
    (normal guys have bolt pistols and CCWS)
    Tactical squad, 5 man 1 lascannon 90

    Tactical squad, 5 man 1 lascannon 90

    Fast Attack: LST AC + HB 80

    497

    In larger games, command squads arent very good.

    So if you want to aspire to being good in bigger battles

    Chaplain Reclusiarch, bolt pistol, frags, jump pack, 107

    Tactical squad, 5 man, 1 lascannon 90

    Tactical squad, 5 man, 1 lascannon 90

    Assault squad, 8 man, sgt with powerfist, 1 plasma pistol in squad. 211

    Good Luck

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