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  1. #1
    Member RedFang's Avatar
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    Space Wolves 2000

    This is my first Space Wolves Army, and I'm willing to take suggestions and comments.

    HQ:

    1x Logan Grimnar

    1x Venerable Dreadnought (Close Combat Weapon, Heavy Flamer, Auto Cannon)

    Elites:

    1x Dreadnought (Close Combat Weapon, Heavy Flamer, Auto Cannon)

    1x Dreadnought (Twin-Linked Lascannon, Missile Launcher)

    1x Dreadnought (Twin-Linked Lascannon, Missile Launcher)

    Troops:

    10x Grey Hunters (Bolters & Close Combat Weapons)

    10x Grey Hunters (Bolters & Close Combat Weapons)

    1x Wolf Guard + 9x Blood Claws + 1x Rhino (Power Fist & Close Combat Weapon, Bolt Pistols & Close Combat Weapons)

    1x Wolf Guard + 9x Blood Claws + 1x Rhino (Power Fist & Close Combat Weapon, Bolt Pistols & Close Combat Weapons)

    Fast Attack:

    3x Blood Claw Biker (Power First, Power Weapon, Melta Gun)

    3x Blood Claw Biker (Power First, Power Weapon, Melta Gun)

    I know I'm missing some upgrades, and this isn't exactly 2000 or it might be a bit over, but hopefully with some help I can make it better.

    I hope people are having fun.

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  3. #2
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    Hmmm... I'm a bit of a noob when it comes to Space wolves, but here goes:-

    HQ

    I love the Venerable dreads Space Wolves get, but I prefer it when they are equiped with plasma cannons, they're more deadly, especially against marines clumping out of a drop pod.
    However, drop the flames. There's a long tactica discussion about falmers. Its only really efective if you drop pod the unit in and then use the flamer, otherwise you are just going to get charged without ever firing it once.

    Elites

    All you need is 3 lucky lascannon / lance shots and all three dreads are dead. either deepstrike them or swop these for one or two missile devestator squads. The frag / crack missile option gives much more versatility in games. Or mabe take seperate troop squads with a lascannon each.

    Troops

    Instead of using Rhinos, considder dropping in the wolfgaurd via drop pods. The new rules seriously hampers the use of Rhinos, and drop pods are cheaper and gets your troops where you want them (alive), and it stops your opponent killing a rhino in turn 1, thereby making your troops footslog the rest of the game.

    Don't Space wolves get Scouts that can deploy / charge from the opponent's deployment zone? I've had this used against me and can really tie up dangerous units for a while, while the rest of your army advances.

    Fast

    I like the bikes, keep them. Mobility is very important to marine armies.

    Have you considdered using Landspeeder Tornadoes? They can also depstrike, and can be a good suppot with your bikes.


    As I say, I'm a noob when it comes to SW, but hope this helps.

    I
    -------------------------------------------------
    Trooper: Sir! We're completely surrounded!
    Sergeant: Brilliant! Shoot anywhere you want!
    Last edited by Inquisator; April 21st, 2006 at 22:29.

  4. #3
    Son of LO Araith's Avatar
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    Well, let's fire off.

    HQ

    First of all, in a 2k game you need 3 HQs, mandatory. You only have 2.

    Then, Logan Grimnar is a very cool character. I give you that. But he has 2 downsides. 1) he isn't officially an IC; 2) he's too expensive for a 2k game.
    Dropping him would give you enough points to get 2 normal HQs, which would also make the list legal. If you normally play with a lot of terrain I recommend a Rune Priest for this list so you have the ability to set all your units in cover while you advance.

    For the Ven Dread, did you mean him armed with an assault cannon or a TL-autocannon? I seriously recommend the assault cannon. And the flamer ... it's mostly useful when podding, but if you happen to have the points to share, you could keep them.
    Also give him upgrades like extra armour and smoke launchers.
    You could consider dropping him, but seeing you have 3 other Dreads and a couple of Rhino's it might also be an idea not to do it. That would give your opponent a lot of targets to choose from. Make sure you use terrain optimally.

    Elites

    For the first Dread, see the comment on the Ven Dread.

    The other Dreads also need extra armour and smoke.

    The Wolf Scouts Inquisator talked about are Elites. So if you want them you'll have to drop a Dread. Those Scouts are wonderful and fit in any list, but this list has an argument not to take them because 4 Dreads make for an interesting list.

    Troops

    Grey Hunters have a load of options, why not use them. Okay, 10 marines are not to laugh about, but the options are certainly interesting. I'll discuss them below.

    Blood Claws are good assault units, but you can't take the Wolf Guards. All Wolf Guard leaders cost a single Elite slot together and seeing you have all 3 filled you can't take them.

    Now on to the composition. Rhino's aren't so bad as Inquisator says. Especially as you have 4 dangerous Dreads too. Give all Rhino's extra armour and smoke and they should live long enough to do their job. As for the turn 1 destruction, with your Ven Dread you have a good chance of winning the first turn, if not, be sure to deploy as much as possible behind cover.
    You have the choice between giving the Blood Claws and the Grey Hunters the Rhino's. Seeing you have 2 Dreads advancing too (the others stay behind) I'd recommend giving the GHs the Rhino's so you don't leave half you army slogging to catch up while the BCs are fighting.

    If you give the GHs the Rhino's, use them to set up somewhere and hold untill the rest arrives. With their bolters they are able to sit somewhere and either blaze away or take on what comes their way. For that business give them a meltagun, a powerfist and either a powerfist or a powerweapon.
    Then give the Blood Claw packs each 2 powerfists. Both to make up for the loss of the Wolf Guard and because you simply need them anyway.

    If the Blood Claws keep the Rhino's, also give them 2 powerfists (or a powerfist and a powerweapon if you're not too fond of fists or short on them), drive up the field, disembark and charge away next turn.
    The GHs will then be forced into a secondary role, together with the Dreads. Drop the GHs then back to packs of 8 men, with a plasmagun and a powerfist. Maybe another powerfist/weapon if you have opponents that are good in close combat. Use the GHs as a supportive unit with a plasmagun and bolters. If the BCs run into trouble you can also aid them with that powerfist.

    Fast Attack

    The Bikers will help with their mobility. But as it stands they're extremely fragile. Either get larger units with that equipment or drop all their equipment down to a powerfist/weapon in each pack. You could also simply combine the models into 1 pack (dropping naturally some equipment).

    'Speeder are a valuable addition to any army. But with a lot of GH bolters and the Dreads they aren't crucial. And you'll already be short on points, so better not take them.


    Anyway, with all these suggestions you'll come out more expensive than you are now. A conservative guess is that it'll cost more than a 100 points extra, less if you give the BCs the Rhino's (though it'd be better tactically to give the GHs the Rhino's the BCs still aren't a bad choice). You'd prolly have to drop one of your Biker units to free up points.


    Tai'shar
    Lance Leader of the LO Codex: Wasters design team



    Forged in fire, bonded in ice
    Son of Fenris, Son of Russ

  5. #4
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    I strongly agree with the goodly chunk of what Araith said here concerning your list. Although Logan Grimnar is a pretty darn cool character, the points involved really arnt worth it. To be honest, you could get several good HQ units for his cost and probably come out ahead.

    Ok, comments on your list as a whole now.

    HQ- Like I said, lose Logan. Hes a cool character, but not too good cause of the points he eats up. Plus a lone figure it termie armour is a sitting duck (and has a target painted on his chest). This is what I would suggest. Take a Wolf Priest and a Rune Priest. Give both a Frost Blade instead of their normal weapon, and a plasma pistol. The WP gets a 4+ invulnerable already because of his rosarius, so dont bother upgrading his armour. Give the RP runic armour however. This is the Wolves equivalent of artificer armour, and is quite helpful during the game. What to do with these great priests, I will get into later. Keep the Ven Dread, with his points, you will be able to get first turn in most likelihood.

    Elites- If you want keep the extra dreads. Personally I dont like using too many dreads aside from the Ven dread. I would recommend keeping at most one of them, probably the assault cannon dread. As was mentioned before, dont bother with a heavy flamer for either of them, its a largely useless choice. Keep the storm bolter. The reason i suggest this is the Wolf Scouts and the Wolf Guard Battle Leaders. As Araith mentioned, both are Elites choices, which means you need to have two slots open to use them. Wolf Scouts are a must have for a 2000 point list. You can get a squad that will do massive damage for under 100 points. This is what I would suggest: 1x Plas Pistol & CCW, 1x meltagun, 2x BP& PW, give all meltabombs. The purpose of this will be to appear behind your enemies lines, blow up a tank or two, and then die. Thats it. Its a suicide squad, plain and simple, BUT they will probably double your points for you before they go. With the power weapons they work just as well against most support infantry. They may not make as many points back as against armour, but they will make it back. The Wolf Guard Leaders are also a good addition to your packs as they allow you to take an additional powerfist in your squad, so I would consider leaving a slot open for them.

    Fast Attack- I largely dont worry about Fast Attack all that much, although I have been trying to fix some into my army of late. I dont like the SW bikes all that much. I've been finding a squad of LS Tornadoes armed with Heavy Bolters and Assault Cannons to be much more effective as disorganizing the foe.

    Heavy Support- You have none. This is a place where the Wolves are lacking, I will admit. However, what I would suggest is that you get a Long Fangs pack. These are extremely dangerous, and with their ability to split fire, can handle several threats at once. Organize them as follows: Leader w/ bolter, CCW, 2x Missle Launcher, 2x Lascannon. This will give you a mixture of a good anti-infantry and anti-armour punch. They are expensive, but worth it.

    Troops- Here it gets a little shady, lots to play around with, and to look at. I would keep both Grey Hunter squads, they are good tactical marines to have, and like all tactical marines, they are a good resource. But play around with the options. I recommend a squad organized like this: 1x Bolter & PW, 1x Bolter & PF, 1x Meltagun, 7x Bolter & CCW. Give them Frag grenades if you can as well. The Wolves love close combat and live to get there. These two squads will make the enemy sweat alot about shooting threats. Second, I would drop the Rhinos on your Blood Claws. With the SW rules, they are not really the deathtraps they are for other chapters, because with the Ven Dread on the table you should get one turns use out of them, but thats about it. I dont waste the points on them. Instead, I would recommend going with a full 10-man squad of blood claws, with a WGPL. I would recommend equipping the squad as follows: 2x BP & PF, 8x BP & CCW, meltabombs. Give the Pack Leader a Plasma Pistol and a Powerfist. Then to make these squads ubernasty, slot one of your IC's into the squad. Under this situation, you will be able to control the Blood Claws tendancy to run howling at the enemy, keep at least one squad in cover (courtesy of the RP's storm caller skill), and inflict some totally ugly damage on the foe. And i do mean ugly. Most of my opponents fear Blood claws so much any more they waste alot of firepower killing them off at range. Which gives my dread, grey hunters, and long fangs time to whittle time down at range.

    Overall, I dont know whats your points structure looks like, but thats the basics I would recommend. If you have points left over, consider a Predator for extra support. I would recommend going with the Autocannon, heavy bolter sponsons. They will help more against infantry than anything else, but will do some real good.

    Have fun, and welcome to the brotherhood of the Wolves! May you drink to victory from the skulls of your foes, and feel the rush as the thrill of combat surrounds you!

  6. #5
    Senior Member Valerian's Avatar
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    I'll throw in my 2 (or 3) cents, too.

    I'll start with Troops, since it is where all lists should really start. Here is what I'd run: At least two full packs of Grey Hunters consisting of 7 marines with Bolters and CCW, one marine with Bolter and PF, one marine with Bolter and PW, and one marine with either a plasmagun or meltagun (depending on what you think you'll be facing). This setup with True Grit and countercharge is awesome. I take two or three of these and they work well regardless of whether you intend to be offensive (against IG or Tau) or defensive (against Nids or Orks).

    Another Troops choice I'll recommend is another Grey Hunter pack, with the same options as above, but everybody keeps their bolt pistol instead of trading for a Bolter; you can also upgrade two models to have plasma pistols. This is a great assault squad, that has a better BS and WS than the Blood Claws. To make this unit even more effective, just join in Ragnar Blackmane as one of your HQ's. When Ragnar joins this squad he grants his Berserk Charge ability, which means everybody gets the bonus of +2 attacks when they charge (just like Blood Claws, but with better WS, get it?).

    Ok, now that we've got our Troops figured out, now let's pick our HQ's. As has been pointed out, for a SW force between 1500 and 2250 points you have to have 3 HQs.

    First, I'd pick Ragnar Blackmane; he is tough as nails, grants Berserk Charge to any unit he joins, and is reasonably priced for what you get.

    Second, you have to go with a Venerable Dreadnought. He gets an improved WS, and extra attack in close combat, hits with his assault cannon and storm bolter on anything but a 1, and will help you get to go first (plus, he's hard to kill). I wish all dreadnoughts were like this guy!

    For the third HQ, go with whatever you think you need. I usually grab a Wolf Priest, and bring in a 4-man Wolf Guard bodyguard, in Terminator Armour with the two Assault Cannon. Give one of the bodyguard a PF, CF, or Thunder Hammer for smashing vehicles or monstrous creatures, and give the rest power weapons or lightning claws so they can attack at I4 instead of I1.

    Now for Elites: If you grabbed the Wolf Guard bodyguard, then you've already used one of your three slots.

    For your second slot, you can go with another Dreadnought with TLLC and ML for some AT capability. (Extra Armour and Smoke is mandatory for all vehicles/dreadnoughts, of course).

    For your third slot, I would highly recommend an Operate Behind Enemy Lines Wolf Scout pack. I max mine out at 6, and give two of them power weapons. Add plasma pistols or a meltagun if you like for additional AT capability. The rest keep thier bolt pistol and CCWs. I then like to add a Wolf Guard Battle Leader with bolt pistol and Power Fist. The meltagun and power fist against rear armour almost guarantee that they get most of their points back right away. Then they are still tough enought to hold their own against almost anything your opponent can throw at them, which he'll have to do to get this threat out of his rear area.

    For Fast Attack, the LST is always a favorite choice. I have a Blood Claw unit with Jump Packs and WGL that I use occasionally, and some folks like Blood Claw Bike Packs. Either should work, just keep the numbers up if you have the points (small packs won't last long).

    Heavy Support:
    This is the one area where SW have it tough. I'd go with one or more of the vehicle choices over the Long Fangs, and here is why: The Long Fang pack doesn't allow you to include regular marines to soak up fire like a codex Dev Squad can. This means that every wound received will kill someone important, and most of us take away the fairly expensive Pack Leader, since he doesn't have a heavy weapon. Not only have you now lost a pricy model, the pack now has lost the ability to split fire its fire.

    I hope this was useful,

    Valerian

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