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  1. #1
    Senior Member Cypher-'s Avatar
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    1500 Space Wolves - All Comers

    HQ:

    Rune Priest Skjaldbjorn Bloodmaw = 130
    Frost Blade
    Storm Shield
    Wolf Pelt
    Wolf Tail Talisman
    Frag Grenades
    Chooser of the Slain

    Venerable Dreadnought Sigvaldi = 193
    Twin-Linked Lascannon
    Dreadnought CCW
    Heavy Flamer
    Extra Armor
    Smoke Launchers

    Total: 323


    Elites:

    Scout Squad Kolgrim = 148
    6 Scouts
    1x Meltagun
    2x Power Weapon/Bolt Pistol
    1x Plasma Pistol/CCW
    3x Bolt Pistol/CCW
    Meltabombs

    Wolf Guard = N/A

    Total: 148


    Troops:

    Grey Hunter Pack Olaf = 282 (Skjaldbjorn)
    9 Grey Hunters
    1x Flamer
    2x Power Fist/Bolt Pistol
    6x Bolt Pistol/CCW
    Wolf Totem
    Transport: Rhino
    Hunter-Killer Missile
    Smoke Launchers
    Extra Armor

    Grey Hunter Pack Alfar = 298
    10 Grey Hunters
    1x Meltagun
    2x Plasma Pistol/CCW
    2x Power Weapon/Bolt Pistol
    5x Bolter/CCW
    Transport: Rhino
    Hunter-Killer Missile
    Smoke Launchers
    Extra Armor

    Total: 580


    Fast Attack:

    Blood Claws Assault Squad Thorbrandr = 240
    7 Blood Claws
    1x Flamer
    2x Power Fist/Bolt Pistol
    4x Bolt Pistol/CCW
    Jump Packs

    Wolf Guard Pack Leader Thorbrandr = 61
    Thunder Hammer
    Bolt Pistol
    Jump Pack

    Total: 301


    Heavy Support:

    Vindicator Valgaard = 148
    Demolisher Cannon
    Pintle-Mounted Storm Bolter
    Hunter-Killer Missile
    Smoke Launchers
    Extra Armor

    Total: 148

    Strategy: The Vindicator will lead the armored spearhead, and i'm hoping it draws enough fire to keep my Rhinos alive. It will pop smoke on the first turn to provide a shield for the two rhinos. One rhino will fire off it's Hunter-Killer at enemy armor, and the RP will pop out of the hatch and give them cover with Storm Caller. Then the other rhino will take it's shot in the second turn, and finally the Vindi in the third. Hopefully, the scouts will have arrived by then and it won't be terribly crucial. The BC packers will skirt up behind the rhinos and try to stay out of line of sight until in assault range. The dread will hug cover and sneak pot shots at tanks when possible. If any rhinos survive to reach the enemy and have fired their HK, they'll tank-shock troops I haven't engaged to keep them occupied.

    What's the verdict?

    Sam Mills (1959-2005) and Mark Fields - Keep Pounding


    Cry Cheese, And Let Loose The Wraithlords And Templar!

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  3. #2
    Senior Member Jodfrey's Avatar
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    Not a style i have played before. Apart from your dred and vind, there is nothing that is going to be shooting until you are on top of the enemy.

    I've never taken assault BC's, but love the idea of them - new purchase me thinks!

    You are relying on the armour and smoke launchers to protect your rhinos, with very little else for your opponent to focus on. We know the vind will be a fire magnet, but you could really do with some other distractions to get those rhinos and their contents into battle. LS or bikes are good at doing this, but depending on what models you have and the points you are using depends on what you can do.

    With what you have got, and without changing any of what you have already stated, i think you might want to drop pod your dred into a good firing position (shed some gh to free up the points and or wargear and upgrades) this will give your enemy two targets to attack, getting your rhinos that bit closer each time they are ignored. Not only that your vind should be put in a good firing position to give the rhino's cover fire, rather than as a shield.

    Those are my thoughts, and as such might be useless, but you wouldn't have posted your list if you didn't want opinions on it!
    Space Wolves are badasses that operate just barely within the rules.
    13th Co. didn't even know there were rules applying to how badass they could be.

    ... and Daemonhunters make it three - now just need a spare room to store it all!!!

  4. #3
    Member RaiderOne's Avatar
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    HQ
    Storm shield dosnt allow use of an aditional combat weapon. The text is written as "a model with a storm shield may never claim the +1 attack for an additional weapon" see CM.

    Lascannon dreadnought get rid of the flamer, I use a flamer on my assault dread and I still get to fire it like once in 3 games.

    ELITES
    Scouts are a bit expensive but whatever works for you. I tend to try keep them under 110.

    TROOPS
    drop the flamer for meltagun, both those rhinos need to loose those hunter killers. If you want the rhinos to be left alone dont give them more then smoke and armour. The squads are also quite expensive with all those upgrades.

    FAST ATTACK
    Not keen on the flamer but whatever.

    HEAVY SUPPORT
    Drop the hunterkiller and the stormbolter upgrades, it will be shot regardless and at the least wont beable to fire. Also, you cant fire any other weapons if you fire an ordanance weapon.

    With those extra points get a melta speeder or somthing. Your strategy is not bad but wont work because of how the rules work. You cant fire any weapons if you move more then 6" with a tank so hunterkiller rhinos are pointless as they would move as fast as infantry which defeats their perpose. Vindicators are a good fire magnet but you could do this much better by using smoked rhinos to shield the vindi and them have them move away so it can PIE whatever is in front ^^. Since a smoked rhino always leaves a wreak when destroyed they have to move to flank you to fire at it.
    The man of tomorrow is judged by his battle today.

  5. #4
    Senior Member Cypher-'s Avatar
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    Storm shield dosnt allow use of an aditional combat weapon. The text is written as "a model with a storm shield may never claim the +1 attack for an additional weapon" see CM.
    Yeah....and? Space Wolves still use wargear descriptions from Codex: Space Wolves. Check the F.A.Q. Until the new Codex is released, we don't get the new rules for Bionics, Storm Shields, etc. That isn't mentioned in Codex: Space Wolves, thus, the Chooser still gives the bonus. Besides, he's wargear, not a weapon.

    Drop the hunterkiller and the stormbolter upgrades, it will be shot regardless and at the least wont beable to fire. Also, you cant fire any other weapons if you fire an ordanance weapon.
    ....a vindi comes with a storm bolter. And yeah, I can't fire the HK and demolisher cannon in the same turn. One has unlimited range, the other is 24"....I don't think that will be an issue.
    Sam Mills (1959-2005) and Mark Fields - Keep Pounding


    Cry Cheese, And Let Loose The Wraithlords And Templar!

  6. #5
    Member RaiderOne's Avatar
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    No where in the 4.1 FAQ does it say that wolves still use the descriptions for wargear given in the wolves codex, the descriptions you are refering to are in fact a refrence sheet. The codex DOES say that you need codex space marines to use it and since that has the most upto date rules regarding wargear, weapons and stuff you use that.

    CM - The storm shield says
    "...a model equiped with a storm shield may never claim +1 attack bonus for being armed with two close combat weapons."

    CW - Chooser of the slain says
    "...count as having an additional close combat weapon in close combat"

    Thus you cannot claim the +1 attack bonus even though you have two weapons.

    my bad on the vindi, I thought it was whirlwinds and vinds but its just whirlwinds that dont get one free.
    The man of tomorrow is judged by his battle today.

  7. #6
    Senior Member Cypher-'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaiderOne
    No where in the 4.1 FAQ does it say that wolves still use the descriptions for wargear given in the wolves codex, the descriptions you are refering to are in fact a refrence sheet. The codex DOES say that you need codex space marines to use it and since that has the most upto date rules regarding wargear, weapons and stuff you use that.

    CM - The storm shield says
    "...a model equiped with a storm shield may never claim +1 attack bonus for being armed with two close combat weapons."

    CW - Chooser of the slain says
    "...count as having an additional close combat weapon in close combat"

    Thus you cannot claim the +1 attack bonus even though you have two weapons.
    You're right. It was the forum clarifications by Pete Haines. I forgot. Now, the question is, does Storm Caller work on the charge? If it doesn't, I can claim the attack bonus. If it does, I can't.

    The F.A.Q. more or less states it can, while Haines says it can't. Haines also says we do not get the new wargear and wargear bonuses from Codex: SM. Thus, we can't get new bionics, storm shields, PotMS, etc.

    Also, the Chooser isn't actually a weapon. Obviously you can't use two weapons and a storm shield, because you can't hold anymore weapons. And as I remember, when two rules conflict, it goes BBB > Main Codex > Other Books. So in that example, Codex: Space Wolves would take precedence.
    Last edited by Cypher-; May 18th, 2006 at 02:28.
    Sam Mills (1959-2005) and Mark Fields - Keep Pounding


    Cry Cheese, And Let Loose The Wraithlords And Templar!

  8. #7
    Member RaiderOne's Avatar
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    playing the "haines faq" is fine if you agree it with your opponant but it is not an offical thing.

    It also says that crossrefrencing things such as teleport homers and stormshields should use the space marine codex one.

    The space wolves section you are refering to states that wolves do not get the new toys from codex marines (e.g. combat shield), it dosent say they use their own wargear rules over codex marines.
    The man of tomorrow is judged by his battle today.

  9. #8
    Wolf Scout Meltagunner Wulfbanes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaiderOne
    playing the "haines faq" is fine if you agree it with your opponant but it is not an offical thing.
    EVERYTHING is fine if your opponent agrees. Inrelevant to the subject I think.
    Quote Originally Posted by RaiderOne
    It also says that crossrefrencing things such as teleport homers and stormshields should use the space marine codex one.
    True, but this does not negate the effect of the Chooser of the Slain. For it is basicly a bird or something that joins your Rune Priest in battle, just like the Familiar with the Librarian. This means he gets another attack as like equipped with two weapons even with Storm Shield, because it states so in the Chooser of Slain part of the CW
    Quote Originally Posted by RaiderOne
    The space wolves section you are refering to states that wolves do not get the new toys from codex marines (e.g. combat shield), it dosent say they use their own wargear rules over codex marines.
    Which again is irrelevant. We arent talking about the new toys. Why are you bringing it up?

    Other than that, if you really want to have a debate about this, I say put it in the Rules Section of the forum. Why? Cause this debate messes up all comments on the armylist Cypher- wrote out.

    And now finaly, I will give my thoughts about the list.
    -Rune Priest
    is fine, one of the standard configs on the LO
    -Venerable Dreadnought
    is not so fine. Can I tell you this: you are paying lots of points to get that Twin-Linked Lascannon. Which in all respect is a nice weapon, UNTIL you see the BS5 of the venerable Dreadnought. You see, with any weapon the Dreadnought will shoot, in a standard game he will only ever miss 1 time per shot he is capable of firing. Therefore I would not spend my points in the Twin-Linked Lascannon. I will replace his CC arm with a Missile launcher. Able to shoot Frag, template, or Krak, which is basicly lascannon but with only 1 strenght less, BUT at a much lower cost. This also leaves you free to get another gun on your gunarm, which might be a better investation. I suggest the Plasmacannon. A Krak Misille and a Plasmacannon on a transport, and it's fleeing inhabitants is very handy. Next to that, also the Plasmacannon will be able to crack tanks. Now, we had that, onto the scouts!
    -Wolf Scouts
    are a miscalculation.
    1+2+1+3=7, not 6, which is max amount of Wolf Scouts available in a unit. Further more, mixing equipment in Wolf Scout units is not recommended. Read the 3rd post of this topic bolded at Tactica Space Wolf Scouts for an indepth explination: http://www.librarium-online.com/foru...sons-russ.html (Sons of Russ)
    -Grey Hunter packs
    are fine with me,
    although I prefer a Blood Claw version of the plasmapistol unit, but that is just personal preference. Also, the Wolf Totem I find a little out of place in small games, and memory says you can't even field them in under 2000 pts games => not complelty sure though, might be the Helmet instead.
    -Blood Claw Packers
    are a no-no for me. But that's personal. I for one have Blood Claw bikers over Blood Claw packers were I would have Marine Packers over Marine Bikers. Why? Cost, simply cost, packers should be cheaper than bikers IMO, because bikers can go faster as well. Since at Blood Claws Assault Troops they cost the same I am very found of NOT USING the Blood Claw packers, because for example, they cost 5-8 points more than a Space Marines Assault Marine while having lower WS, BS, and not as good suvivability as bikes. The only thing they have on opponents is the berzerk charge, which IMO is good, but not worth Packers. BUT, it's personal preference. Vindicator it is then.
    -Vindicator
    is overdone. Seriously, this thing should be rolling with nothing more than smoke and Extra armour. Why? Cause when smoking, you can't fire Hunter-Killer. When firing Hunter-Killer you can't fire Battle Cannon. When firing at all, the Storm Bolter does next to nothing.
    -Rhino's
    personaly, I say drop Hunter Killers and pintle mounted Strom Bolters as like Vindicator.
    those are 75 points you could have spend otherwise. Rhino's are there for moving your units fast, then tank shock, then die due to opponent fire. Further they have no uses other then reliability to die soon.

    Suggestions: With things I suggested other than only commented you should be able to fetch out enough points to add a Anti-tank Predator or Dreadnought to your army, which will definalty increase your reliable fire-power.

    Greetings,
    Wulfbanes
    Getting Help = Giving Rep

    Space Wolves 5th edition:
    W13, L2, D2

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