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Considering a new Guard Army

686 views 13 replies 7 participants last post by  Stifflersthedog 
#1 ·
I play Space Marines right now, and I'm starting out on a new force. I'll either go Imperial Guard or Witch Hunter (though the high cost of Guard is a little prohibitive for me). Here's an army I drafted to consider investing in -- I'd love to hear what you guys think.


HQ

Command Platoon 335

Command Squad (130)
Heroic Senior Officer w/4 Guardsmen (100)
Master-Vox (25)
Standard Bearer (5)

Fire Support Squad (95)
3x Autocannon (60)

Anti-Tank Support Squad (110)
3x Lascannon (75)


ELITES

Stormtrooper Squad 134
Veteran Sergeant w/9 Stormtroopers, Deep Strike (116)
1x Grenade Launcher (8)
1x Plasma Gun (10)

Cadian Sniper Squad (Ratlings) 44
4x Cadian Snipers (44)


TROOPS

Infantry Platoon A 170

Command Squad (40)
Junior Officer w/ 4 Guardsmen (40)

Infantry Sqad A1 (65)
1 Sergeant, 9 Guardsmen (60)
Vox-Caster (5)

Infantry Squad A2 (65)
1 Sergeant, 9 Guardsmen
Vox-Caster (5)

Infantry Platoon B 170

Command Squad (40)
Junior Officer w/ 4 Guardsmen (40)

Infantry Squad B1 (65)
1 Sergeant, 9 Guardsmen (60)
Vox-Caster (5)

Infantry Squad B2 (65)
1 Sergeant, 9 Guardsmen
Vox-Caster (5)

FAST ATTACK

Sentinel Squadron 135
3x Mars Pattern, Multi-Laser (135)

HEAVY SUPPORT


Basilisk 125
Indirect Fire (25)

Leman Russ Battle Tank A 185
Hull-Mounted Lascannon (15)
Sponson-Mounted Heavy Bolters (10)
Pintle Storm Bolter (10)
Hunter-Killer Missile (10)

Leman Russ Battle Tank B 185
Hull-Mounted Lascannon (15)
Sponson-Mounted Heavy Bolters (10)
Pintle Storm Bolter (10)
Hunter-Killer Missile (10)

TOTAL POINTS: 1,483
 
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#2 ·
just to let you know WH isn't that much cheaper in real money terms than IG if at all. A 10 unit box of SOBs cost the same as 20 Cadian Box if not slightly more to equal our 10 box of STs.


Drop the Storm bolters from the LR. Not really needed

Also i would add either a HW or a Spec weapon to your line squads. It help to give them a littler more punch.
 
#3 ·
I'm gonna agree with socprof here 100%. Only alteration to his post that I'd make is that instead of saying might want to add a heavy or special, I'd say must add a heavy and almost definitely a special weapon as well. It might have escaped your attention, but your infantry squads consist solely of guardsmen armed with lasguns. Hopefully it has not escaped your attention that lasguns flat out suck. They're terrible, statistically it takes 18 lasgun shots to take down a MEQ (Marine EQuivalent). And they can't even scratch the paint off the lightest armored vehicles. Guardsmen need heavy and special weapons. That's what makes them tough and competitive, the sheer number of heavy weapons we can boast.

Changes to make: Scrap the storm bolters and HK missiles on the Russes, they're not worth it. Give the Russes hull heavy bolters instead of lascannons. Scrap the Ratlings. Move the heavy weapons from your support squads into your line squads. Add plasma guns wherever possible. Grenade launchers are typically inferior weapons.

That should give you a decent start. Give it another try and re-post here and we'll give you further critique. Should save you money by not buying stuff you don't need.
 
#4 ·
Sokhar is right about the lasguns being worthless, but in my opinon, you do not need heavy weapons. I only use special weapons in my squads in my newest army list, and everything is moble and useful. I would reccomend plasmas and meltas.
 
#5 ·
Sokhar is right about the lasguns being worthless, but in my opinon, you do not need heavy weapons. I only use special weapons in my squads in my newest army list, and everything is moble and useful. I would reccomend plasmas and meltas.
 
#7 ·
You're new to Guard and they fail to print this in the codex, but its pretty commonly understood: Guard have almost no mobility. We have firepower. Line squads aren't meant to move and capture objectives or take the fight to the enemy. They're meant to form a gunline and shoot things into submission. Certain squads like Storm Troopers, Armored Fists, Rough Riders, and the various brands of tanks can move around and do stuff, but the vast majority of your army will not. So I would definitely recommend heavy weapons in your line squads. Mobile guard armies can be very difficult to execute and in a lot of cases end up as one-trick ponies. Doesn't matter if you give an Infantry Squad a plasma gun, having them disembark 12" away from almost any enemy is essentially tossing them into a meat grinder. Guard just aren't designed to fight and survive in that manner.
 
#8 ·
Tritoch42 said:
All valid points.. I guess I'm putting a little too much faith in the lasgun, huh? Though as for putting heavy weapons in my line squads -- isn't that really going to hurt my mobility?
As Sokhar said - "what mobility" ;)

The background for Imperial Guard - in so far as it has a 20th century parallel - is WW1 - you think the tanks look that way by accident? - or maybe late WW2

To quote Petain at Verdun - "Artillery conquers, Infantry occupies"

If you want fast-moving Mechanised Warfare you're really looking at Space Marines or Tau I reckon.

Our basic soldier has a 5+ save and misses 50% of the time - so they will tend to die fairly frequently and to statistically guarantee 1 hit per trun you need two weapons or 1 weapon firing at least twice.

Yes there are doctrines, bolt-ons, etc. etc. but they eat points better spent on more troops.

We do have some elite units like Stormtroopers that can do the counter-attacking and objective seizing and other fancy stuff - but bottom line - guns & bodies.

Somebody wrote a tactica for SM called "Don't break the backbone" - we should have one similar for IG (if we haven't already) for Infantry Platoons.

"Quantity has a Quality all of it's own" ;)
 
#9 ·
I agree on almost all of vorlon's and Sokhar's points. Quantity and redundancy are the most important aspects of a guard army. No queston. However, I would still advise putting heavy weapons in heavy weapons squads and leaving them out of your line squads. This is just personal preference, of course. Most people would prefer to have the extra firepower. However, I like having infantry squads that can move. Instead of having a few special squads to take objectives, I like having the ability to take objectives with each and every one of my squads while not loosing firepower. Do not doubt the guard's mobility. Everything moves slowly, but when everything moves, that's a lot of moving infantry. I like to have a gunline several rows deep. Line one steps forward, rapid fires, gets assulted, and dies. Then line two does the same thing. By the time you get to row five, there are not going to be many troops left. Well, make your own choice between mobility and firepower. If you prefer one or the other, then do it. Good luck.
 
#10 ·
though the high cost of Guard is a little prohibitive for me
If you find anything prohibitive about guardsmen, don't let it be the cost. In the end they don't cost much more than most armies out there. GW prices everything accordingly so that they make sure to equally screw everyone over and not have any "cheap entry armies". You think GK terminators are $60 bucks by mistake? :)

The most prohibitive thing about guardsmen should be the painting. If you do not like to paint, then do NOT buy this army. It will make you want to gnaw your fingers off after about a week of painting. Remember guardsmen are unlike other horde armies. They are human and wear clothing and equipment which all has to look like people expect it to look. If you play tyranids you can get away with two color paint schemes that look good because who's to tell you what a Tyranid should look like.

In the end, however, guard are the most rewarding army to paint and play. Every victory is a battle well fought and shows the colors of the tactician behind the forces.

H0urg1ass
 
#11 · (Edited)
Well to include a lot of the things I wanted, like Kasrkin and Sentinels, the price gets high (a squad of 3 Sentinels is cheap points-wise, but runs $75.00)... I re-drew my list a little, taking some advice and discarding others. I've scrapped a lot of the extra stuff, added an additional heavy weapons squad, and more infantry and another Leman Russ.

In a nutshell, I tried to make the army a little bulkier while minimizing my cost. I can build this army from 3 Cadian army box sets, 1 box of Cadian Shock Troops, 1 Cadian Command Squad, and two blisters, running a total of $330. You guys can feel free to critique this one too, and I'll try to tweak it out a little more while keeping it fairly cheap. (Using some pieces I already have, I can build a Witch Hunter army for $245 that will be pretty effective... Though if I can afford it, I'd rather play Guard)

HQ

Command Platoon 430

Command Squad
Heroic Senior Officer w/4 Guardsmen
Master-Vox
Standard Bearer

Fire Support Squad
3x Autocannon

Fire Support Squad
3x Autocannon

Anti-Tank Support Squad 110
3x Lascannon


TROOPS

Infantry Platoon A 300

Command Squad
Junior Officer w/ 4 Guardsmen

Infantry Sqad A1
1 Sergeant, 9 Guardsmen
Vox-Caster

Infantry Squad A2
1 Sergeant, 9 Guardsmen
Vox-Caster
Plasma Gun

Infantry Squad A3
1 Sergeant, 9 Guardsmen
Vox-Caster

Infantry Squad A4
1 Sergeant, 9 Guardsmen
Vox-Caster

Infantry Platoon B 235

Command Squad
Junior Officer w/ 4 Guardsmen

Infantry Squad B1
1 Sergeant, 9 Guardsmen
Vox-Caster

Infantry Squad B2
1 Sergeant, 9 Guardsmen
Vox-Caster

Infantry Squad B3
1 Sergeant, 9 Guardsmen
Vox-Caster

HEAVY SUPPORT 525


Leman Russ Battle Tank A
Hull-Mounted Lascannon
Sponson-Mounted Heavy Bolters
Pintle Storm Bolter

Leman Russ Battle Tank B
Hull-Mounted Lascannon
Sponson-Mounted Heavy Bolters
Pintle Storm Bolter

Leman Russ Battle Tank C
Hull-Mounted Lascannon
Sponson-Mounted Heavy Bolters
Pintle Storm Bolter

TOTAL POINTS: 1,500
 
#12 ·
I dont think your meant to put all those points costs in the post >>>

I'm rather confused about this list, apart from your HQ (nice), and the lemans ( apart from the lascannon) your troops are like useless, straight guardsman?, i dont understand??. After your opponent kill of your support squads, he's in the clear ( anti tank -wise ) and can just roll towards you... and a bunch of bayonets aint gonna save you in combat. or kill much save from maybe an Eldar farseer squad.

Well thats my thoughts, i'd loose one troop squad and sponsens lascannon, and give your troops some fire power a.ka. heavy plats

p.s. I run like 18 platforms, and still i wish i had more fire power........
 
#13 ·
Hmm.. And here I thought 3 full squads was enough. Maybe bumping it up a little more couldn't hurt, I guess. My logic here was pretty much to have lots of infantry to soak up hits while the Lemans and Heavy Weapons did the heavy work. It's not the ideal army, as I'd love a few sentinels, and maybe some Kasrkin, but I'm trying to trim the dollar cost as much as possible.
 
#14 ·
they wont "soak" up much the enemy will shoot right over them and into the lemans and supports, what the will soak up is the shot directed at any hvy plat in the squad making them very useful :p
 
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