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  1. #1
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    Grenadiers 1500 Friendly

    I am thinking about starting a IG army and am trying to create an army list that can beat Space Marines (with many dreads and tanks), Necrons, Sisters of Battle and Tau. I love the storm trooper concept (and TANKS!) and have thus put together the list below. Please let me know if I would be totally "pwned" by the opposing armies above if I used this list.

    Disciplines:
    Storm Trooper Squads
    Ratling Squads
    Grenadiers
    Sharpshooters
    Fifth???

    HQ

    Heroic Sr Officer w/ Iron Discipline
    3 Guards w/ lasguns
    1 Vox operator w/ lasgun & Master-Vox

    Fire Support Squad
    - 3 x Autocannon & Sharpshooters

    Anti-Tank Support Squad
    - 3 x Lascannon & Sharpshooters

    Elites

    1 Hardened Veteran Sergeant w/ Plasma Pistol
    8 Hardened Veterans
    - Vox Operator
    - 1 Lascannon
    - 3 Plasma Guns

    6 Ratling Squad

    Troops

    3 x Veteran Sergeant w/ Power Weapon
    3 x 9 Storm Troopers
    - 1 Vox Operator/unit
    - 2 Plasma Guns/unit

    Heavy Support

    3 x Leman Russ Battle Tank
    - Hull-mounted Lascannon
    - Sponson-mounted Heavy Bolters
    - Extra Armour
    - Smoke Launchers
    - Track Guards

    It should add up to 1495 points. The Hardened Vet's and Ratlings will Infiltrate and be deployed into some kind of cover.

    If you don't think that the list above is totally idiotic, could you please suggest a fifth Doctrin?

    Is it correct that Storm Trooper Vet.Sgt's can't take "Iron Discipline"? Only officers?

    Kashug the Destroyer

    "Hell hath no fury as a Chaos Lord scorned!"

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  3. #2
    The Fallen Cheredanine's Avatar
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    411 (x8)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kashug the Destroyer
    I am thinking about starting a IG army and am trying to create an army list that can beat Space Marines (with many dreads and tanks), Necrons, Sisters of Battle and Tau. I love the storm trooper concept (and TANKS!) and have thus put together the list below. Please let me know if I would be totally "pwned" by the opposing armies above if I used this list.
    ok firstly stormies dont particularly operate well against MEQs which, with the exception of Tau, is pretty much what you are describing, however..
    Disciplines:
    Storm Trooper Squads
    Ratling Squads
    Grenadiers
    Sharpshooters
    Fifth???

    HQ

    Heroic Sr Officer w/ Iron Discipline
    3 Guards w/ lasguns
    1 Vox operator w/ lasgun & Master-Vox
    no this needs sorting:
    1 JO with an honorifica is cheapr than HSO
    2 Id will not work with master vox, master vox should put this squad out the way, in which case all it needs is a mortar to provide fire spuuort without getting shot at and the MV to provide moral, if you are going to be close enough to your troops to use the ID then lose the master vox in general would be my advice and tool the squad up with plasma guns
    Fire Support Squad
    - 3 x Autocannon & Sharpshooters
    usefull vs tau and light vehicles but pretty ineffective vs MEQ troops
    Anti-Tank Support Squad
    - 3 x Lascannon & Sharpshooters
    good
    Elites

    1 Hardened Veteran Sergeant w/ Plasma Pistol
    8 Hardened Veterans
    - Vox Operator
    - 1 Lascannon
    - 3 Plasma Guns
    solid
    6 Ratling Squad
    pretty naff, there are better ways to spend these points
    Troops

    3 x Veteran Sergeant w/ Power Weapon
    3 x 9 Storm Troopers
    - 1 Vox Operator/unit
    - 2 Plasma Guns/unit
    as above, dont expect these to hold their own vs MEQs, standard IG would give you some heavy weaponry and more numbers
    Heavy Support

    3 x Leman Russ Battle Tank
    - Hull-mounted Lascannon
    - Sponson-mounted Heavy Bolters
    - Extra Armour
    - Smoke Launchers
    - Track Guards
    prefer to replace the hull las cannon with heavy bolter then you are firing at common target types
    It should add up to 1495 points. The Hardened Vet's and Ratlings will Infiltrate and be deployed into some kind of cover.
    no - ignoring the ratlings, the vets should be fire support and staying as far wout the way as possible
    If you don't think that the list above is totally idiotic, could you please suggest a fifth Doctrin?

    Is it correct that Storm Trooper Vet.Sgt's can't take "Iron Discipline"? Only officers?
    yes, officers only.

    it isnt totally idiotic, but it suffers somewhat from the use of stormies and the low expendature on troops (in 1500 points I would expect at least 600 points to be spent on troops)
    It may be more viable to back up the stormies fire power by giving them chimera, if you strip the list down to command squad, AT squad with las cannons and tank then fill points with stormies in chimera you may be closer, I would also consider then taking mechanised doctrines and adding chimera to the AT and HQ squads, hen you can possibly fit in a little more AT - probably armegedon patern sentinels with HKs
    Everything you have been told is a lie!


  4. #3
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    Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't heavy weapon platoons restricted? Gotta buy them back. Your command squad is a bit lackluster, I would try to improve somehow somewhere, like better weapons. I'd drop the ratlings, while good thier points could be used elsewhere. I'd Get your vet sarges with maybe a Storm bolter and plasma pistol, because if you get in a shoot off your gonna want him. Also, you might consider using the honirifica on another vet sarge, if that squads going to be mobile he could really give it a solid melee punch, for XX points, and I'd give him a power weapon and something. Autocannons are good against heavy infantry, but you might need to swap them out for more heavy firepower. Just my 2 cents.

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    The Fallen Cheredanine's Avatar
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    411 (x8)

    Quote Originally Posted by Forgotten Flashlight
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't heavy weapon platoons restricted? Gotta buy them back.
    You are spot on, unfortunatley you havent noticed he is not fielding a heavy weapons platoon (HS choice) but a heavy weaopons squad (as part of a HQ platoon)
    Your command squad is a bit lackluster, I would try to improve somehow somewhere, like better weapons. I'd drop the ratlings, while good thier points could be used elsewhere.
    agreed
    I'd Get your vet sarges with maybe a Storm bolter and plasma pistol, because if you get in a shoot off your gonna want him. Also, you might consider using the honirifica on another vet sarge, if that squads going to be mobile he could really give it a solid melee punch, for XX points, and I'd give him a power weapon and something. Autocannons are good against heavy infantry, but you might need to swap them out for more heavy firepower. Just my 2 cents.
    not sold on the gun choices but otherwise agree, obviously it depends where he wants to put his hionorifica
    Everything you have been told is a lie!


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    Thanks for the feedback! I am currently playing Chaos Iron Warriors, and I want something different for my second army (different? Well, both IG and IW are shooty armies, but my 1500 point IW list contains only 25 models on foot, including the War Smith!). Maybe I should drop the grenadier thing entirely and focus on a regular IG army instead. It seems that Storm Troopers are a bit pricey for what they do (compared to Fire Warriors and Dark Eldar warriors e.g.) and also lack "punch" in the form of heavy weapons.

    The weapon of choice seems to be the lascannon, and the role of the infantry is more or less to serve as a meat shield for the heavy weapon + plasma gunners. This would mean that a vanilla IG army would fare a lot better...

    Based on your feedback, I have put together a list for a vanilla army. Would this list work better than a grenadier list?

    The HQ command squad would take a more active role, and has thus left his V-M at home. I will be playing a lot vs Tau, so a few autocannons will remain...

    HQ

    Heroic Sr Officer w/ Iron Discipline + Power Weapon + Carpace Armour
    2 Guardsmen w/ lasguns
    1 Autocannon team
    1 Standard Bearer Veteran

    Elites

    1 Hardened Veteran Sergeant w/ Honrifica Imperialis + Power Fist
    8 Hardened Veterans
    - 1 Lascannon
    - 3 Plasma Guns

    Troops

    2 x Command Platoon
    - Junior Officer w/ Power Fist + Iron Discipline + Trademark Item
    - 1 Autocannon
    - 1 Plasma Gun
    4 x Infantry Squads
    - Veteran Sergeant
    - Lascannon
    - Plasma Gun

    Fast Attack

    Sentinel w/ Lascannon
    Sentinel w/ Lascannon

    Heavy Support

    3 x Leman Russ w/ 3 x Heavy Bolter + Extra Armour + Smoke Launchers

    This list includes a 64 foot soldiers, 5 vehicles and 7 Lascannons. Is it still short of "bodies"?
    Should I give some equipment to the sergeants, or is it a waste of points?

    The Carpace Armour Doctrine seems very tempting, since it would mean that I actually get a save (50% - not bad!) from bolters/gauss flayers/Pulse rifles... It would cost 160 points though... Is it worth it??
    Kashug the Destroyer

    "Hell hath no fury as a Chaos Lord scorned!"

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    Sorry about the HW thing.

    On carapace, I personally enjoy it emmensely, seeing as my armies are normally infantry based, and I try to get them armed very well. Also good if you use a lot of plasma.
    In your command squads I wouldn't put an autocannon (longer range) and a plasma (shorter range) together, especially since thier's not a lot of body bags before the autocannon gets hit. Sentinals tend to get blown up a lot so I'm not sure if a lascannon is a good idea, but if you can keep 'em alive...
    Though unnumbered lurking perils await us, our blades will ever be ready.
    FOR WE ARE THE EMPEROR'S VENGEANCE!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Forgotten Flashlight
    On carapace, I personally enjoy it emmensely, seeing as my armies are normally infantry based, and I try to get them armed very well. Also good if you use a lot of plasma.
    - Yeah, I think that I will go for the carapace armour. I'll remove the plasmas in the command squad (it will be too expensive to buy all the plasma models anyway ) and will reconcider the sentinels...

    Quote Originally Posted by Forgotten Flashlight
    Sentinals tend to get blown up a lot so I'm not sure if a lascannon is a good idea, but if you can keep 'em alive
    - I'll start with a 1000 point list without them, and see if I manage without. They are also very expensive to buy... :cry:

    Thanks for the feedback, guys!
    Kashug the Destroyer

    "Hell hath no fury as a Chaos Lord scorned!"

  9. #8
    The Fallen Cheredanine's Avatar
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    411 (x8)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kashug the Destroyer
    Thanks for the feedback! I am currently playing Chaos Iron Warriors, and I want something different for my second army (different? Well, both IG and IW are shooty armies, but my 1500 point IW list contains only 25 models on foot, including the War Smith!). Maybe I should drop the grenadier thing entirely and focus on a regular IG army instead. It seems that Storm Troopers are a bit pricey for what they do (compared to Fire Warriors and Dark Eldar warriors e.g.) and also lack "punch" in the form of heavy weapons.

    The weapon of choice seems to be the lascannon, and the role of the infantry is more or less to serve as a meat shield for the heavy weapon + plasma gunners. This would mean that a vanilla IG army would fare a lot better...

    Based on your feedback, I have put together a list for a vanilla army. Would this list work better than a grenadier list?

    The HQ command squad would take a more active role, and has thus left his V-M at home. I will be playing a lot vs Tau, so a few autocannons will remain...
    OK makes sense, lets see what we can do..
    HQ

    Heroic Sr Officer w/ Iron Discipline + Power Weapon + Carpace Armour
    2 Guardsmen w/ lasguns
    1 Autocannon team
    1 Standard Bearer Veteran
    OK I would be tempted to lose the carapace on the HSO, the rules on hitting squads with different armours can be chinked to make this a liability and in most cases he will get targeted in combat, in which case some ultra HQ is gonna hit him with power weaponry and it is pointless, however if you got the points left over at the end then fine.
    I would be tempted to add a medic to the squad, but if the tau are gonna be pouring down str6 weaponry on you that would eb pointless, in which case a grenade launcher would make a fine addition
    Elites

    1 Hardened Veteran Sergeant w/ Honrifica Imperialis + Power Fist
    8 Hardened Veterans
    - 1 Lascannon
    - 3 Plasma Guns
    Good but you got this a little confused, it is viable to run the squad like this,. but commonly this approach is adopted by ex SM players (and I would include CSM in this). this squad is clearly shooty. it should be at the back in cover.
    So why the power fist on the vet sgt? it will be rare that it gets in combat, when it does, most stuff will eat it alive, he will be lucky to get 1 round with teh power fist, he certainly wont get a second, I would therefore be tempted to save the points on both the honorifica and teh powerfist as that comes close to another squad or a sentinel (I should say IG armes, conventionally are about numbers of guns, what I am trying to do here is maximise them)
    Troops

    2 x Command Platoon
    - Junior Officer w/ Power Fist + Iron Discipline + Trademark Item
    - 1 Autocannon
    - 1 Plasma Gun
    Good, but, you got a spare guy, either make him a medic or give him a special weapon, plasma is nice but against Tau I would be just as happy with a GL. I would also be rather tempted to drop the powerfist again, IG die horribly easily, he can be targeted in combat, he would be lucky to get 1 hit, a power weapon is about as far as I would go
    4 x Infantry Squads
    - Veteran Sergeant
    - Lascannon
    - Plasma Gun
    Good but why take a vet sgt?
    Fast Attack

    Sentinel w/ Lascannon
    Sentinel w/ Lascannon
    Good, you have followed the general consensus of ignoring upgrades, however for tank hunters I do like to give them HK missiles, principly this is becayuse these are to shoot tanks on turn 1, since they have a 50% hit rate, giving them HKs means they get twice as much chance of hitting, generalyl it will pay for its self.
    That is a personnal opinion, and I know it flies in the face of the general rule but I do not think I am alone in it
    Heavy Support

    3 x Leman Russ w/ 3 x Heavy Bolter + Extra Armour + Smoke Launchers
    I would switch one of these to a basilisk with indirect fire, deploy it driectly behind the Russ so it can not be targeted and laugh at his suits trying to jump out its way
    This list includes a 64 foot soldiers, 5 vehicles and 7 Lascannons. Is it still short of "bodies"?
    Should I give some equipment to the sergeants, or is it a waste of points?
    it is a waste, IG vet Sgtys are not aspiring champions. I have made multiple suggestions that will save you points, consider adding:

    more troop squads
    possible more sentinels (I do like auto cannon sentinels)
    possibly a rough rider squad

    The Carpace Armour Doctrine seems very tempting, since it would mean that I actually get a save (50% - not bad!) from bolters/gauss flayers/Pulse rifles... It would cost 160 points though... Is it worth it??
    No, 160 points = atleast 2 squads.

    Get hold of WD295, there is an IG tactica in it on split deployment, IMHO it should be mandatory reading for all guard players, it isnt a panacea, but it is a very good basic grounding in IG stratergy
    Everything you have been told is a lie!


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    Thank you, Cheredanine! Your input has made a lot of things clearer for me regarding how the IG works. It is hard to realise that your sergeants aren't 7-foot tall, tank-killing psycos with power fists... :glare:

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheredanine
    Get hold of WD295, there is an IG tactica in it on split deployment, IMHO it should be mandatory reading for all guard players, it isnt a panacea, but it is a very good basic grounding in IG stratergy
    - Got it, read it! Thanks for the tip - it's a great article!

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheredanine
    I should say IG armes, conventionally are about numbers of guns, what I am trying to do here is maximise them
    - Yes, I am beginning to realise that "more troops/guns" is a lot more valuable than fancy upgrades like carapace armour and power fists (and they can't hurt AV13+, as can MEQs). That's cool though - I do want an army with more than 25 models...


    Quote Originally Posted by Cheredanine
    Good but why take a vet sgt?
    - Good point! I actually managed to miss the fact that there was a free sgt alternative to the vet sgt... As the General should be within range, the additional Ld doesn't matter..

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheredanine
    Good, you have followed the general consensus of ignoring upgrades, however for tank hunters I do like to give them HK missiles, principly this is becayuse these are to shoot tanks on turn 1, since they have a 50% hit rate, giving them HKs means they get twice as much chance of hitting, generalyl it will pay for its self.
    - I agree, the points spent on 2-3 sent's for HK's are paid for if they take out a single Rhino...

    Thanks once again for you sharing your infinate wisdom! (are you perhaps a Farseer in disguise??) :shifty:

    Back to the drawing table...
    Kashug the Destroyer

    "Hell hath no fury as a Chaos Lord scorned!"

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