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This list started as really an experiment with an inquisitor lord and huge squads that didn't work out. It's grown into this:
Mantle of Ophelia
Brazier of holy flame
Cloak of Aspira
9x Sisters Repentia 275
5x Celestians 133
1x w/Hvy Flamer
Vet Superior w/ power weapon, bolter-flamer
Vet Superior w/plasma and CCW
Rhino w/Hunter Killer and Smoke Launchers
2xSisters w/Storm Bolters
Vet Superior w/Storm Bolter and Auspex
1xSeraphim w/hand flamers
1xSeraphim w/inferno pistols
Vet superior w/Plasma pistol and metla bombs
This is the squad I'm not sure about and that the rest of you are sure to take issue with.
Vet Superior with Plasma and Brazier of Holy Flame
Immolator w/twin heavy flamers and smoke
5xRetributors w/bolters 196
4xRetributors w/Heavy Bolters
Vet Superior with Storm bolter and auspex
Let me know what you think. Remember, this is a tournament army so I have no idea who I'm going to wind up playing. Also, I'm taking heed to the notion that most armies are over-equipped with Anti-tank weapons so I'm avoiding that.
Last edited by Hextus; May 24th, 2006 at 20:37.
I'm new here and truth be told have not played my witchhunters all that much but i'l take a crack.Why combine weapon types? If you want this squad to be AT make it AT if you want it an assault squad go all assault...3xSeraphim
1xSeraphim w/hand flamers
1xSeraphim w/inferno pistols
Vet superior w/Plasma pistol and metla bombs
This is the squad I'm not sure about and that the rest of you are sure to take issue with.I have heard it many times from everyone that 2 exorcists is 10x better than one... you have an extra HS slot and you should try to fit the second one in... Its pretty cheap... while we are on the exorcist maybe try giving them extra armor...Exorcist
I'll let everyone else comment on the rest because i don't have alot of experience with those aquads... have fun...
Ok, whew this is going to be tough. My first thoughts on seeing this list were "Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, major!" and "whaaaaaaat!?". Oh and dude, your list is only 1719 points (or some amount not quite 1850), there's still 131 points to play around with. Ok now for the suggested improvement for this list:
HQ: Great googily moogily! Those are some pricey canonesses you've got there! 180 points! Perhaps you could trim some of that wargear off and try the diet version (same great lethal taste, and less points intensive, like this, for example
111 points. That frees up 69 points.
Inferno or Plasma Pistol
130 points. There's another 20 points that can be used elsewhere.
Elites: Not enough Repentia, and the Celestians won't be able to do much without a transport, or more numbers in the squad. I'd say drop the weapons from the VSS, giving another 20 points to use
So with the 119 points floating around you can either:
Add 5 Repentia
Add 1 Celestian, put the squad in an Immolator and give the VSS an Eviscerator
Max out the Celestians and put them in a Rhino
Troops: HK missiles? Usually the exorcist missiles are sufficient, and if you miss with the HK, you end up feeling silly. Just Smoke and Extra Armor on the Rhinos, it's all you need. The second squad of sisters is sort of like a mini-Retributor squad. But IMO, a storm bolter should only be used when it's attached to one of the following:
A Grey Knight
A Ret Squad VSS
And with only a few vehicles in the list, they'll get shredded pretty badly. It feels like a little bit of mech, and a little footslog mixed together and you really should pick one or the other.
Fast Attack: Hmm.... Seraphim are useful, but quite fragile and cost twice the amount of a regular SoB. You should give the VSS a BoSL so that they don't run away. 5 seraphim is not that many, I would recommend adding more if you want to use hand flamers (so as to help with divine guidance) or use two inferno pistols with the small squad and hide them. Seraphim do not need melta-bombs. They already have krak grenades, and if you pick inferno pistols (Twin-linked!) you should never need melta-bombs. The Dominion squad only has two flamers, and with it's small size, will be hard to pull off a sucessful Divine Guidance roll. It costs almost the same for a regular squad of sisters. If you don't use their ability to have more special weapons, then their isn't much point to taking Dominions. The only VSS's who should get CC equipment are Seraphim VSS's and Celestian VSS's.
Heavy Support: Just one exorcist? Take TWO, man! And give them Extra Armor! One Exorcist is never enough. Two can really mess with your opponent's plans. The Rets look solid, but do you really need a full squad of 10? The HBs are usually sufficient without DG, and in order to use it effectively, your opponent has to walk into a freakin wall of bullets.
That's all I can think of, and the above is just my opinion based on personal experience and you are free to take any of my advice or none at all.
5 Tactical Squad Marines
As far as pts i'm pretty sure this is right since I used Interactive Army Builder to add up the pts.Originally Posted by IATFP
I am new to WH so yeah there are probably a lot of conventions broken here. I think a pricey canoness is a great way to go. The Mantle of Ophelia is really key. With that, I can enable the rest of the wargear to be a million times more effective. Like having the ability to take out a dreadnuaght without being insty-killed, have a guaranteed 2+ armor save (litanies). This has proved VERY effective for me in the 5 games I've played so far. I took out a baneblade in one turn, killed a chaos sorcer AND lord in close combat, and two obliterators the next turn. I don't think any one is going to expect that kind of power from a canoness.
The second canoness is possibly going to get down graded a little, i think she'll get put in with the celestians and provided support against deep striking units and fast moving enemy squads like bikes and guants (why i didn't give them a vehicle).
Unfortunately I really can't afford to buy another exorcist right now, which leads us to the Seraphim anti tank. I realize the small squad size is a risk, I think I may add one and make two inferno pistolers. a book might be a good idea. Hey do you have any advice on how to model extra armor on an exorcist? I have to have this WYSIWIG.
I'll consider the other suggestions, I'm pretty limited on budget right now though so I've got to pretty much stick with what i've got.
I get about 1819 w/ AB3 - and that's assuming you want to give the whole Seraphim squad melta bombs - gets cheaper if you don't. (I think IATFP missed the 9 repentia total in his count).
About the Exorcist, I think that you should get away with the extra armor on the Exorcist as it already is armored heavier (with the side plates) than the rhino-hull it is normally based on. GW even sold just them for Witchhunter players which wanted to add extra armor to SoB vehicles. Even if they do decide to get that anal on you, throw some sand bags on it. Plastic card on the sections that you could add it on with (made or painted) rivets should allow you to pass a WYSWIG by even the most picky opponent - you'll just be limited as a lot of real estate is already taken on an Exorcist as it is.
Well I've got the ForgeWorld Model so I'll have to work something else up. Why put extra armor on the exorcist anyways? Its not THAT important that it moves if can't shoot... That kind of thing is useful for transports and as such I might put it on the immolator and rhino.
OK for the final time:
the pts per unit are as follows and add up to 1850 pts:
Troops 1: 219
Troops 2: 157
I hope posting the points values for the units isn't going overboard and if it is PLEASE MESSAGE ME FIRST.
I've seen extra Forgeworld plates added to Tanks, but's so rare, I don't think anyone will protest no WYSIWYG for extra armor.Originally Posted by Hextus
I don't belive your list is very competitive.
I think too many points are being spent on upgrades.
I believe in the economy of the basic trooper: a gun, a suit of armor, and a wound.
I would rather play an army of no special weapons and no wargear than one with too much.
Two Exorcists can address a lot of problems, and take the pressure off you to buy up all that wargear. They are like Rooks in Chess. Two Rooks in tandem are a force that almost nothing can withstand. One Rook is a lot weaker than two.
Sisters Repentia: Wow what beautiful models! Wow what terrible rules! -stjohn70
Can you even make a 180pts Canoness? Aren't we limited to 100 points of gear on any model?
As far as extra armor - you can make something up from old plasticard (credit cards, swipe cards etc), bit-order the front armor plates from the limited WH Exorcost (one of my Rhinos has that), convert something (I put a "driver" from one of our Penitent Engines on the front of my second Rhino as a human-shield) or use the extra top hatch that comes in a box somewhow...
As far as army - 1850pts is a lot of troops to fight against. And some of your squads seem loaded with weapons but short-handed...
Try to have more scoring squads like RedZ suggested - 11pts for a Sister is the best deal in town. Another Exorcist is also a must - you WILL face some Predators or even LR, Dreads, Elite Dreads and what-not for sure (as almost everyone plays SM ro Chaos)...
Chicago - GT?
Yep, I tallied this up - 95 pts wargear on this model. Rest is weapons (doesn't count toward wargear total) and base cost for Canoness.Originally Posted by SmokWawelski
Wish I was going to the Chicago Grand Tournament... good luck!
Last edited by SentryKiller; May 28th, 2006 at 02:00.
Originally Posted by Montford981
I left out some small war gear items in the seraphim and dominions squads that made the points count inaccurate, sorry my bad!
I think the first available funds I can put together will be spent on an exorcist, but its really out of reach at this point. The repentia are filling that spot at this point and probably not well but they will have to suffice. Do you think I would be better off taking the celestians as regular SoB's and filling out the squad more?
RedZ: you're probably right about the upgrades, and being a guard player I can really respect the notion of the rank and file value (i rarely assign special weapons to guard squads) but I'm not hoping to win or anything at this tournament.
Happily, I'll note that I unmastercrafted the Eviserator and added extra armor to the transports and smoke to the Exorcist. Also the dominions now have melta guns. The seraphim are also reworked for AT, but no melta bombs.
I'm really just going for fun and for the experience. Its a new army and I'm sure I'll learn a lot.