1500 Points - Shooty Deathwing - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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  1. #1
    Member AOXES's Avatar
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    1500 Points - Shooty Deathwing

    HQ (450)
    01 x Codicier [Terminator Armour, Force Weapon, Storm Bolter, Fury of the Ancients, Auspex, Stubborn] (140)
    - 01 x Command Squad [01 x Sergeant, 05 x Terminators, 02 x Assault Cannons] (310)

    Elites (420)
    01 x Techmarine [Terminator Armour, Power Weapon, Storm Bolter, Servo-Arm, Signum, Auspex, Stubborn] (100)
    01 x Terminator Squad [01 x Sergeant, 05 x Terminators, 02 x Cyclone Missile Launchers] (320)

    Troops (630)
    01 x Terminator Squad [01 x Sergeant, 05 x Terminators, 01 x Assault Cannon, 01 x Cyclone Missile Launcher] (315)
    01 x Terminator Squad [01 x Sergeant, 05 x Terminators, 01 x Assault Cannon, 01 x Cyclone Missile Launcher] (315)

    Total (1500)

    Was tinkering with a list as of late, utilising a versatile, powerful firebase comprising a Codicier (with Fury of the Ancients) and a Techmarine (with his Signum).:ninja:

    The Codicier would lead his assault cannon equipped command squad as a close-firebase with the Techmarine providing long range fire support by leading a missile launcher squad.

    These squads (close-firebase and fire support) would be backed up by companion "tactical" terminator squads wielding an assault cannon and missile launcher each. Firing and maneuvering, providing mutual fire support.

    Only questions now being:
    Can I field a Deathwing Terminator Techmarine? I think I can, if I read the rules correctly...:w00t: But any suggestions on how to convert/acquire one?
    Would the FotA/Signum be useful abilities to "up" the shootiness of the army?

    Last edited by AOXES; August 30th, 2006 at 17:59.

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  3. #2
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    Hey there, Having been playing Deathwing for a while now I feel that I can offer you some help - if Cheredanine and Zuriel pass through here too their advice is solid too....

    First of all you are right about Deathwing being shooty - don't even consider assault termies (or land raiders) until 2000 points +

    Techmarine - sorry bud, no can do! Techmarines are out, they are no longer legal.

    HQ Squad - FotA is a good power for extra shootiness

    My main comment is your squad weaponry. Mixing Cyclones and Assault Cannons in the same squad is pretty poor - its effectively the same problem as mixing weapons in your Dev Squads. You end up with mixed range weaponry and ineffective firing.

    In 1500 points Deathwing works best by having 5 man squads with 2 assault cannons in. Get your long range fire support from Dreadnoughts with TLLC and ML.

    You can expect to spend around 350 - 400 points on your librarian and command squad which leaves you with around 1100 points to play with. For this you can typically get 3x 5 Man Terminator Squads with 2 Assault Cannons and 2 Dreadnoughts.

    I play slightly differently by giving one of my Dreads a Plasma Cannon (just for fun) or sometimes I drop pod a Dread and my Command Squad (different pods obviously!)

    So to sum up, in 1500 points you should get:

    1 Terminator Command Squad with Character
    3 Terminator Squads with 2 Assault Cannons
    2 Dreadnoughts for Anti Tank and Fire Support

    Basically try to control a 24" radius with your Assault Cannons - wipe everything out and move on. Make sure you concentrate your fire on one side of the board - don't get stretched thin.

    As far as Cyclones go, you could take one squad with 2 of them in just to increase your long range fire but you just can't beat 8 assault cannon shots a turn!

    Now wait for Cheredanine and Z to add their own personal twists and you'll have a good view on Deathwing.....

  4. #3
    Senior Member zuriel's Avatar
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    Techmarines are OK for a DW list as an elite choice but they cannot take the full servo harness. They arent really that good for the points so leave him at home.

    cheers
    Z
    Keeper of the Dark Fortress
    Member of the Inner Circle
    Current armies: Deathwing and Grey Knights (I'd have more if my wife would let me)

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    Member AOXES's Avatar
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    Nevertheless, would it be cool as a "fluff" Deathwing army? Not Dark Angel-esque, but a successor chapters'? Maybe a firepower-oriented successor chapter of the Dark Angels? Would I be able to earn composition points? =D

  6. #5
    The Fallen Cheredanine's Avatar
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    411 (x8)

    ok as others have tried to explain the issue is this:

    Basicalyl DW are shooty, the core of the shots should come from ammassed ACs and Storm bolters killing everything within 24 inches or atleast thinning it out hugely really the bulk of the threat comes from the ACs so you need to max these out.

    BUT, the nature of terminators means they are generally vulnerable to 3 things:

    1 specialist assault squads - those that rend or carry power weapons or similar weapons that hurt the 2+ armour save - these are dealt with by using the storm bolters and assault cannons to eradicate them or thin them out until they are not really any threat

    2. Mobs - shooting or assaulting if you have to make 30 saves you will lose a squad of termies - again ACs and storm bolters will take down mobs effectively or reduce them to managable proportions

    3. and this is the problem. Long range AT weaponry - particularly ordinance with AP2 or better. Anything you use to counter this will detract from the number of ACs and SBs you have, weakening your army, so you need to do this efficiently. If you rule out landraiders, and if you dont then you need to take a sanity check, then the only way to deal with these are:
    a) Cyclones - good range, can take out tanks or infantry, but really you should not mix weaponry, as to use the cylone effectively means no one else in the squad has the range. IF you must take cylones then use both weapons slots for them, in your army example, take the 2 squads that have both AC and cyclones and switch them about so one squadf has 2xcyclones and the other has 2xACs. However, dont forget the points cost for the cyclone squad is around 310 points in your list. tha is giving you 2 missile launcher squads and costing you 8 shots with ACs and 8 shots with SBs

    b) my prefered route, the fire support dread, take a dread, add TLLC and ML, buy another one and you still have spent less points than the cyclone route and have vastly more ranged fire power.

    c) a nice additional option is the libby with Fury of the Ancients, not much use against vehicles but when dealing with armies like IG it can be lethal

    d) drop pods - there are options there, but I would stay away until you have mastered basic DW

    Now, to deal with your list then, you are aiming to get maximum ACs

    -Lose 2 men from the command squad, saving you 90 points
    -Tech marine isnt giving you anything, - lost him, another 100 points (because they all have power fists you dont need lethal characters in DW)
    -From the remaining 3 squads lose one termie each and replace all cyclones with ACs - saving you 155 points.
    You now have 445 points to play with, that is 2x dreads with TLLC and MLs, you probably cant squeze another squad in so you can eiother add a third dread or top up your numbers
    Everything you have been told is a lie!


  7. #6
    Member Brother Luctus's Avatar
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    WOW! Cheredanine that answer you gave AOXES has helped me out tremendously.
    I'm thinking of starting a DW army(Lots of unused termies) and I heard that Min/Maxing
    was the way to go but something didn't seem right. And it's just like the Dev squads
    taking Multi-meltas and Las Cannons. Huh? :huh: What's wrong with this picture. :wacko:

    So in your experience would it be better to have 3 long-ranged dreads than 1 landraider
    and a 5 man squad inside? Not really off the subject, I hope. Just thought this would be
    the best time to ask as some would rather have Dreads and others Landraiders w/riders.

  8. #7
    The Fallen Cheredanine's Avatar
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    411 (x8)

    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Luctus
    So in your experience would it be better to have 3 long-ranged dreads than 1 landraider
    and a 5 man squad inside? Not really off the subject, I hope. Just thought this would be
    the best time to ask as some would rather have Dreads and others Landraiders w/riders.
    Yes, hands down, placing a LR on the field draws fire like mad, las cannons, Bright lances, dark lances, anything STR8 or higher will shoot at it on turn 1, if it is lucky it will last until turn2 but may well be imobalised.

    DW squads, through storm bolters and assault cannons, dominate an areas 24 inches around them, if you keep your squads relative co-located, the domination becomes lethal, anything getting through is so badly damaged it poses no threat

    The threat to this is long range weaponry, especially ordinance and stuff that ignores the terminators armour save and particularly a combination of the two

    Long range fire power is the answer but it needs to be done without detracting too much from your fire base, the cheapest and most efficient way of doing it is dreads with TLLC and ML.

    That is really re-itterating what I said above, but that is basic DW tactics
    Everything you have been told is a lie!


  9. #8
    I Expect the Inquisition RecklessFable's Avatar
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    Landraiders are almost never worth the points, but especially so in a 1500 point army.

    Just say no to techmarines. In 2nd edition they were horribly powerful as a vortex grenade delivery system. (IIRC you could buy a techmarine with jumppack and vortex grenade for under 100 points) Now they are horribly ineffective for the cost.

    I use 2 cyclones in my army mainly because I only own 6 assault cannon terminators and I will only play WYSIWYG. If you have the same issue, take Tank Hunters for that squad. Sadly, this squad will cost more than a assault cannon squad that is almost always more effective.

    I'm a big fan of veteran dreads with Tank Hunter, but many think it isn't worth the points. If it helps me get one more round of firing and ups the odds of a penetrating hit, I'll take it.

    It wasn't brought up, but for strategy, try not to teleport your terminators. Sometimes drop-podding them is fun (and gives you instant terrain). But in general, they are better off being on the board and threatening a 24" zone from turn 1.
    RecklessFable's Journey to Mediocrity (Painting an IG army)
    I've been addicted to World of Tanks lately and neglecting my IG... But it is so... much... fun!

  10. #9
    Member Brother Luctus's Avatar
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    Alright, Thanks for the advice. I'll have to find something to do with the landraider.
    It's still in the box. Maybe in 2500pt+ games I'll use it. But I will definately buy
    another Dread.

    Thanks

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