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  1. #1
    Senior Member Captain America's Avatar
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    2250 Black Templars - Comments, please...

    Just got the Black Templars codex and I have been playing with my first list. It is ready to be critiqued. I'll include my intended roles for each unit in italics after each entry. Let me know if the list is too confusing. :blush:

    As you can see from the start, it is a highly mechanized unit. I was thinking of making the army a drop pod army, and I will use that tactic quite often, however for my first list (which is what I will base my purchases off of), I wanted to include the rhinos (even though they have suffered under 4th ed!). Plus, more vehicles splits the amount of targets that a shootier army will have, something that a pure drop pod army would be lacking.

    Enjoy the list and let me know what you think!

    PS- Crap. I just realized I forgot to equip my crusader squads w/ frag grenades... That's a lot of points. Suggestions welcome. I hope I don't have to sacrifice a terminator.
    • HQ: 353
    • ELITES: 555
    • TROOPS: 669
    • FAST ATTACK: 245
    • HEAVY SUPPORT: 428
    • Total: 2250

    HQ

    Reynaldus, Fighting Company Castellan (106 pts)
    Castellan, power weapon, storm shield, frag grenades, terminator honors, crusader seals.

    Reynaldus' skill in battle and grasp of tactics is unquestionable, but his experience compared to his superiors is still wanting. This is his first command, the Fighting Company having been bestowed upon him after the previous Castellan was slain by a vile assassin of the Ruinous Powers. The young commander was the only warrior left standing after the trail of ritual combat for the right to lead the company, and support for his ascendance was unanimous.

    The upcoming battle will be his first test as Castellan and he has no intention of failing. He wisely defers to the vast wisdom of Chaplain Leopold, the heart and soul of the company. Reynaldus relies upon the fierce warrior priest for guidance in the inevitable conflicts, yet he is still an excellent tactician. It will be up to Brother-Chaplain Leopold to foster the new commander's belief in himself and to enforce his word.


    Chaplain Leopold, Fighting Company Chaplain (147 pts)
    Master of Sanctity, crozius arcanum, rosarius, crusader seals, bolt pistol, frag grenades, jump pack, terminator honors.

    Leopold has been with the company for as long as any of it's initiates can remember. Rumors of his history are shrouded, but the stoic priest gives few clues to his origins, usually in small stories to an awed crowd of neophytes. He is humble about his prowess, however, and leaves his deeds to speak for themselves. He was a student of Grimaldus, who recognized Leopold's zeal and valor early on, and stood with the Hero of Helreach on more than one hopeless stand, somehow surviving unscathed. He was blessed by the ancient chaplain to use his imparted knowledge to mentor new templars in the way of their chapter.

    He can be found bellowing prayers of hate and fury in the thickest of the fighting, often donning a jet pack to enable him to be where he is needed. He stands as a rock for the company to put their back to in the fight for deliverance.


    Bertrand, Emperor's Champion (100 pts)
    Emperor's Champion, the Black Sword, Armor of Faith, terminator honors, crusader seals, frag grenades, bolt pistol, Uphold the Honor of the Emperor (vow).

    Bertrand led his Sword Brethren in the Litanies of Hate as their venerable Land Raider Crusader sped toward the enemy. The ping of bullets and other inconsenquencial weapons reflecting off of the blessed hull of the transport could be heard over their prayers. The gunner in the hatch above tells them they have less than 30 seconds before assaulting the enemy entrenchment. They finished their affirmations and entreated the machine spirits of their ancient terminator armor to protect them from their foe's unholy offenses. The Emperor's Champion turned around to look his brothers in the eye.

    "You know what to do, templars. We have fought for over a hundred years, crusading for the Emperor of Mankind, bringing His light to the darkness. We are the example for our younger brothers to follow. Remember your vows. Crush them all. Let them know the terrible mistake they have made in trifling with our holy destiny, before you steal the breath from their lungs, and make them regret their perversions. Tonite we will count our scars and revel in new tales of conquest. Let no heretic escape. See that the underlings are taken care of. The leader is mine."

    He needed no response from the silent veteran warriors. He could taste their anticipation for the violence at hand. It was palpable and quite addictive. Besides hate for the xenos, it was the only emotion that the dutiful champion allowed himself.

    A small light next to the hatch turned green, and the soft voice of the vehicle's machine spirits chimes in, signaling the time to depart its protection. Starting as a low rumble in the back of his throat, and slowly becoming a guttural war cry, Bartrand gave voice to his rage. His righteous anger at the very existence of the heretics. The frag launchers could be heard thumping, spraying the enemy with shrapnel, as the ramp at the fore of the Land Raider slowly lowered. The Black Templars could now see their foe and there was nothing that could hold them back. As one, they charged into the fray.


    ELITES

    Sword Brethren Terminator Assault Squad (280 pts)
    -5 terminators w/ a pair of lighting claws
    -2 terminators w/ thunder hammer and storm shield

    Expensive, I know, but I just love terminators. Especially the assault variety. How could I not take advantage in a Black Templars army? They will pack into their Land Raider Crusader with Bertrand, the Emperor's Champion (he can join them, right?) and get to the enemy asap. I gave them the LRC because they are a big investment. And it's fluffy! :yes: Sometimes theme gets the better of my judgement. Leave the highly polished, perfect list for big tournies, I say.

    Ancient Brother Solumnus, Venerable Dreadnought (135 pts)
    Twin-linked lascannon, dreadnought ccw, venerable, tank hunter.

    Solumnus was once an Emperor's Champion who succumbed to his wounds when an enemy APC exploded only meters away, right after he delivered the telling blow to a Champion of Chaos. He was saved by the efforts of a nearby apothecary, but could only be stabilized for as long as it took to inter him in the holy sarcophagus of an honored dreadnought recovered in the same battle. He fights on with his brethren today, and his powerful lacannon has pierced the shell of many xenos and traitor hulls alike, bringing the Emperor's vengeance upon the occupants.

    Some say he was to be the next Castellan. Solumnus and Reynaldus often talk long into the night, regailing days long past and thinking of the future to come. The dreadnought finds solace in these talks as much as the young Castellan, knowing that his words ensure the continuance of honor for his brothers.


    Honored Rosemund, Dreadnought (140 pts)
    Assault cannon, dreadnought ccw, extra armor, drop pod.

    Rosemund is not the actual occupants name, for noone knows who the marine who pilots the war machine really is. His remains were excavated from those of a squad of Sword Brethren who had been caught in an enemy bombardment. The building that they been holding for reinforcements had fallen upon them, crushing them instantly. The orks piled around the warrior suggested that he had fallen last and only after a ferocious fight. His body was unidentifiable and delaying would have prevented him ever being resuscitated. It was decided that his deeds could be honored without a name and he was given one from the annals of heroes from the first days of the Second Founding. He has no memory of his identity or past, but he seems to remember combat quite well, and enjoys riding a drop pod into the heart of the enemy. His assault cannon is an instrument of doom for the heretic.

    TROOPS

    Crusader Squad (239 pts)
    - 7 initiates; 5 w/ bolt pistol and ccw, initiate w/ powerfist and bolt pistol, initiate w/ meltagun, crusader seals.
    - 3 neophytes w/ bolt pistol and ccw.
    - Rhino w/ extra armor and smoke launchers.

    Their tactics are pretty straightforward. Get to the enemy asap and get stuck in. They have a few neophytes (i.e. cherries) to deflect some shooting casualties and fuel their righteous zeal. Their rhino is equipped to get them as far as it can. Ultimately, it provides another target for enemy guns, I hate to say. They have a full 10 marines to maximize their numbers once they finally tackle the enemy.

    Crusader Squad (209 pts)
    - 6 intitiates; 4 w/ bolt pistol and ccw, initiate w/ power fist and bolt pistol, initiate w/ meltagun.
    - 3 neophytes w/ bolt pistol and ccw.
    - Rhino w/ extra armor and smoke launchers.

    This squad is essentially the same as the above, but this squad will include Castellan Reynaldus, giving them some added punch. They are minus an initiate to make room for his prodigious butt in the rhino. They don't have crusader seals, as the Castellan does, making the point moot.

    Crusader Squad (221 pts)
    - 7 initiates; 5 w/ bolters, initiate w/ power fist and bolt pistol, initiate w/ plasma gun.
    - 3 neophytes w/ bolt pistol and ccw.
    - Rhino w/ extra armor and smoke launchers.

    Once again, going off of my 10-man-squad model. But these guys have bolters and a plasma gun for fire support. However, they can jump into a melee just as well. Ideally, the rhino will pull them up to within 6-12" of the enemy, they will disembark, fire their weapons on rapid fire (due to not being able to charge; rhinos suck now!) to soften up the enemy unit as much as possible, then charge or keep firing, using the rhino as cover. I really wish I could have taken two of these squads.


    FAST ATTACK

    Black Templars Assault Squad (245 pts)
    10 initiates; 7 w/ bolt pistol and ccw, intitiate w/ power fist and bolt pistol, 2 initiates w/ plasma pistols and ccw, frag grenades, jump pack.

    Hit the enemy in place that I might not be able to get to by turn 4 or 5. Wherever would hurt them the most or valuable units that cannot stand up to their fury. I am wary of deepstriking them, but it may come to that. With Chaplain Leopold reinforcing their ranks and spurring them to even greater rage, they should do well. Contemplating giving them some stormshields, if only for fluff.

    HEAVY SUPPORT

    Vindicator (163 pts)
    Extra armor, Power of the Machine Spirit, smoke launchers.

    Use cover, smoke launchers and extra armor to get close and then BOOM! Repeat. I've never gotten to use a Vindicator before and I think it is particularly appropriate for a close combat army, given their role in sieges and urban warfare. I am considering dropping the Power of the Machine Spirit to make room for frag grenades for a squad or two. I can't believe that I forgot that!! :hmm:

    Land Raider Crusader (265 pts)
    Awesome as it is! :w00t:

    Carry terminators and the Emperor's Champion into front line. Unload deadly cargo. Unleash hell. Be awesome.


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  3. #2
    Senior Member Clone-Trooper's Avatar
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    Hey man,

    Nice list i like how you put those caption thingies.... oh yeah land raider crusader already comes with all the stuff free, so you dont have to pay for frag launchers its 265 flat.Hope i helped some how....

    Tim

  4. #3
    Senior Member Captain America's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clone-Trooper
    Hey man,

    Nice list i like how you put those caption thingies.... oh yeah land raider crusader already comes with all the stuff free, so you dont have to pay for frag launchers its 265 flat.Hope i helped some how....

    Tim
    Thanks, Tim. Your response is it's own help. Glad you liked it. Any ideas on how to free up the points for some frags?

  5. #4
    LO's Shadow Captain Lost Nemesis's Avatar
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    Captain, while I really enjoy the way you posted your list, with the fluff and all that, I'd like you to please remember to post army lists in the Army Lists subforum in the future. :yes: I'll go ahead and move this one for you, though.

    Keep up the neat posting.

    ~Thread moved.

  6. #5
    Senior Member Captain America's Avatar
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    Crap...

    Oh no! I am sorry! I really meant to post it in the Army Lists forum. That's on me. :hmm: I'm an idiot. Lol.
    I'm an American, religious, male and a proud Republican. You have your beliefs and (gasp) I have mine. Deal with it!

    Quote Originally Posted by Wikipedia
    To be "owned" in a game or otherwise is to be miserably defeated by an opponent or an opposing team.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain America
    As you can see from the start, it is a highly mechanized unit. I was thinking of making the army a drop pod army, and I will use that tactic quite often, however for my first list (which is what I will base my purchases off of), I wanted to include the rhinos (even though they have suffered under 4th ed!). Plus, more vehicles splits the amount of targets that a shootier army will have, something that a pure drop pod army would be lacking.
    This makes me a bit nervous.. you can get 5 neophytes for the price of a rhino, and they allow you a bunch of freedom in movement. And, from everything I've read, I don't think that a drop podding BT list is all that good (I could be wrong here, as I've never played them). But maybe they are, as they have nice potential, and you could prove me wrong... by the way, love the fluff you included with each character. Now let me mess it all up.


    Quote Originally Posted by Captain America
    Reynaldus, Fighting Company Castellan (106 pts)
    Castellan, power weapon, storm shield, frag grenades, terminator honors, crusader seals.
    Nice selection, although I think I would do one of two things...
    First would be to drop this guy and change him out for a chaplain. I've found that the fearless giant crusader squad of death led by a chaplain is just scary. 2 are even worse. However, a high leadership for the whole army is nice. As laid-out, this guy could benefit (I think) from a bolt pistol instead of a storm shield (extra attack). Oh yeah, every HQ needs a HOA. They just do.


    Quote Originally Posted by Captain America
    Chaplain Leopold, Fighting Company Chaplain (147 pts).
    Master of Sanctity, crozius arcanum, rosarius, crusader seals, bolt pistol, frag grenades, jump pack, terminator honors.
    I've been playing with the idea of a chaplain with a jump pack for a while... I just have never gotten around to using him. I don't like jump infantry in BT armies (see below), so I always go for the Chaplain with 3 CS, HOA, TH & BP. It makes a unit of BT fly up the board (quite literally at times), and is cheaper than the one you have.

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain America
    Bertrand, Emperor's Champion (100 pts)
    Emperor's Champion, the Black Sword, Armor of Faith, terminator honors, crusader seals, frag grenades, bolt pistol, Uphold the Honor of the Emperor (vow).
    Not too sure about this vow, I like hitting on 3s, but maybe in your area it works. I'd personally rethink it a bit.


    Quote Originally Posted by Captain America
    Sword Brethren Terminator Assault Squad (280 pts)
    -5 terminators w/ a pair of lighting claws
    -2 terminators w/ thunder hammer and storm shield.
    Yeah baby! I might drop a thunder hammer, though, as I feel you only need one. I think 8 terms (? check this for sure) can fit in a LRC, so definately join the HQ up with them in the LRC. Nasty. Another option would be to include a Chaplain in TA, so you can re-roll hits when you charge out of the LRC... either way, just as good. Everyone around you dies.

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain America
    Ancient Brother Solumnus, Venerable Dreadnought (135 pts)
    Twin-linked lascannon, dreadnought ccw, venerable, tank hunter.
    Perhaps a Missile launcher, too. I'm mixed here, because in general I think you need more dedicated anti-tank, and a ven. tank-hunting dread is about as Bad-@@@ as it gets... think about it. I wouldn't want the upgraded TLLC in cc at all. I'd want him back, blaziing away, moving towards objectives and firing everything it has. But that's me. I might think about going two Dreads in Drop pods with DCCW/AC for a real scare. Don't know if it's fluffy, though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain America
    Honored Rosemund, Dreadnought (140 pts)
    Assault cannon, dreadnought ccw, extra armor, drop pod.
    Yup, yup!

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain America
    Crusader Squad (239 pts)
    - 7 initiates; 5 w/ bolt pistol and ccw, initiate w/ powerfist and bolt pistol, initiate w/ meltagun, crusader seals.
    - 3 neophytes w/ bolt pistol and ccw.
    - Rhino w/ extra armor and smoke launchers.
    Eh? We definately play differently, so advice on troops comes from my end of the spectrum. Sorry if its not too much help. Why use a rhino when you have RZ? Give a squad 10 Initiates, 10 Neophytes, and a chaplain w/3 CS, and watch the mayham it causes. It can be used against you, but I think, in general, it's a benefit. However, I can see a support squad like this working in conjunction with each mega-squad acting as cover and fire support to prevent too many casualties from being taken as the 20-man squad marched up the field. You also don't need the crusader seals if they are in a rhino.
    With BTs, though, you need to take casualties to be a BT. I probably would go with straight Initiates if I could afford it, with this load-out. It simplifies the game and, more importantly, makes them more resistant to enemy fire when they jump out and get ready to assault. I might also load them (or at least a few) with bolters for the round of RF when they jump out of the Rhino. it's up to you, but I've found a squad with bolters can help support a mega-squad with CCW/BP quite well. Add the rhino-squad and you got yourself a fun team.

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain America
    Crusader Squad (209 pts)
    - 6 intitiates; 4 w/ bolt pistol and ccw, initiate w/ power fist and bolt pistol, initiate w/ meltagun.
    - 3 neophytes w/ bolt pistol and ccw.
    - Rhino w/ extra armor and smoke launchers.
    See above, but I would go with (overall) 1 or 2 mega squads, and 2 rhino squads with bolters. Again, it depends on how you play, but that's what I would do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain America
    Crusader Squad (221 pts)
    - 7 initiates; 5 w/ bolters, initiate w/ power fist and bolt pistol, initiate w/ plasma gun.
    - 3 neophytes w/ bolt pistol and ccw.
    - Rhino w/ extra armor and smoke launchers.
    See above, again (broken record).

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain America
    Black Templars Assault Squad (245 pts)
    10 initiates; 7 w/ bolt pistol and ccw, intitiate w/ power fist and bolt pistol, 2 initiates w/ plasma pistols and ccw, frag grenades, jump pack.
    AH! Jump infantry...Don't like 'em. I feel they do something that every other BT infantry unit can do, which is move fast. I'd rather have 15-man squads with a chaplain re-rolling hits than 10 jump infantry re-rolling hits. Furthermore, you can only have 1 single powerfist and 2 pps, so I don't feel they can be made as bad-@@@ as other marines jump infantry. Just my opinion, again, but drop them for the points. Maybe get a tornado or two for fast moving infantry killing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain America
    Vindicator (163 pts)
    Extra armor, Power of the Machine Spirit, smoke launchers.
    Yeah! I have no idea how well these work, but they shoot a really big gun, so it must be good right? I might also think about getting a Pred Annihilator to go tank hunting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain America
    Land Raider Crusader (265 pts).
    Yeah, this is good.

    In general, it's a good list, but I think I would try to fold in a bit more anti-tank (pred and Dread & 2 LS Tornados) as in 2000+ pts games you are almost certain to face a LR or equivalent you want to take away from long range.

    Hope it helped... but don't forget it's only the way I play, so I'd get more advice before you listened to me.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    "Listen up you primitive screwheads ... see this ... this is my BOOM-stick!" - Ash

    "I told you, it's not Pink! It's Light Red!" Donut on his new power-armor.

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    I LOVE the fluff. That is so cool im going to write my own now. Your army over all looks pretty good and I agree with Sha'is on some points. I dont agree on the 20 man squad thing. It sounds good on paper but, I dont think that it would hold up too well in most any game. I would focus on fast attack, deep striking, and transports(mostly the LRC).

  9. #8
    Junior Member icer190's Avatar
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    The 20 man squads hold up great in game, just to throw that out there, LRC holds 8 termies, I'd take the "Accept any Challenge, no matter the odds" vow, having no cover saves hurts! Just ask my Templar! The Vindicator is great, if you could pump up to a Marshal, 10 leadership is great against 'Nids. Looks like you are going for a cc army, so get rid of most of your shooters, and take out the Assault squad and put in a biker, get as many squads in cc as fast as you can and then get the rest of your troops in at your leisure.
    Chaos is cowardace! - Master of Sanctity Alger

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