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This is going to be my army for an upcoming tournament I am attending in preparation fo the Grand Tournament. I am in the final tweaking stages so I would like some suggestions on how to improve the list.
Since the escalation rules are going to apply at this tournament I though I would try to ensure that it does not hamper me too much by ensuring the army (especially the reserves) can either move 12", infiltrate or deep strike.
The basic stratagy is that the tactical squad, the scout squad and the devestator squads will concentrate firepower on any major threats and then the assualt squad, dreadnought and landspeeders will be able to move in, kill whatever they cannot deal with and seize table quarters.
Let me know what you think.
Master of Sanctity- Bolt pistol, Crozius arcanum, Frag grenades, Jump pack, Melta bombs, Rosarius. 127
Revered Brother Nova
Venerable dreadnought- Assualt cannon, Dreadnought close combat weapon with integral storm bolter, Extra armour.
Drop Pod- Storm Bolter. 160
Tactical Squad Raeleon
Veteran sergeant- Bolter, Powerfist, Bionics, Terminator honours, Counter charge, Infiltrate, True grit.
9 Spacemarines- Bolters, Close combat weapons, Melta gun, Counter charge, Infiltrate, True grit. 255
Scout Squad Sapheal
Sergeant- Sniper rifle.
4 Scouts- Sniper rifles, Missle launcher. 95
Assualt Squad Damiel
Veteran sergeant- Bolt pistol, Powerfist, Combat shield, Frag greandes, Jump pack, Terminator honours.
9 Spacemarines- Bolt pistols, Close combat weapons, Frag grenades, Jump pack. 255
Landspeeder Squadron Alpha
2 Landspeeder Tornadoes- Assualt cannons, Heavy bolters. 160
Landspeeder Squadron Bravo
Landspeeder- Multi melta, Extra armour. 70
Devestator Squad Cyrus
Sergeant- Bolter, Infiltrate.
5 Spacemarines- Bolter, 4 Missile launchers, Infiltrate. 188
Devestator Squad Daego
Sergeant- Bolter, Infiltrate.
5 Spacemarines- Bolter, 4 Missile launchers, Infiltrate. 188
OK, few things.
You didn't list Terminator Honors for your Chaplian. He has T-Honors right? And I would reconsider Metla-bombs unless it's a point filler. You really don't want your chaplian to be assaulting tanks. Plus, a lot of armies use hover tanks, which mean you need 6's to hit anyway.
A Dread in a drop pod should have a Heavy Flamer.
Tac squds. Ok, for some reason you have chosen TyBB over Cleanse and Purify. Unlike a lot of people I'm not a big fan of TyBB (read that as I think it's **** and a waste of points). What you need to do, is sit down with a piece of paper, and work out the odds. You have spent 40 points, and how many extra guys are you gonna kill in CC with those 40 points? If they are 3+ save armies, not many. Not many at all, like less then 1. So it is not effective against any Marine based army. Then consider that TyBB is only usefull if you are charged, (So that rules out Tau, IG, Necron, SoB and shooty Eldar) and your init is higher then or equal to those charging you. (add DE, CC-Eldar, Nids) So that leaves...uhh...Orks. So you can rest easy in the knowlege that you killed a few extra orks as the rest of them crush you and laugh.
Scout squad. Most people agree that sniper rifles rarely perfrom as well as they should.
Assault squad - Solid. I wouldn't bother with the combat shield, but I'm really stingy when it comes to wargear.
Land speeders - Solid all around. No problems with Alpha but you can't have extra armor on a LandSpeeder, so you need to fix Bravo. Use those points on a Heavy Flamer instead. Odd config, but it always pays off for me. Just remember that the Heavy Flamer is a secondary weapon. Don't distract him from his Tank Hunting until they are all dead.
Dev's. You really want 2 more guys in each of these squads. What I would do, is drop TyBB, go with Cleanse and Purify, and give your tac squad anothr melta gun. This gives you 30 extra points. Add a guy in each of these two squads.
Pretty Darn Good List
Since you know that the infaltrating ML dev squads need to infaltrate they are great.
I would add some more troops even if it is something as simple as a 6 man squad with a Lasscannon. This I think will improve the survivablity of the army and will definantly up your comp score. I would definantly mark you down if you had only 2 troop choices. I would also reduce the points in the Tactical squad. You dont need to give the vet srgt bionics, if his squad leave the table it was ment to be. I also think that combat shields on Vet Srgt in the assault squad are not worth it. If you dont have anything to spend 5 points on go for it.
If you build a man a fire he will be warm for a night. If you set a man on fire he will be warm the rest of his life.
Land Speeders CANNOT take Extra Armour...lol - they can't take any vehicle upgrades!
Take that off it's illegal and with the 5 pts saved from the combat shield you find the 10pts to take the Heavy Flamer for the Dred!
Never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever take a IC without Term Honors. NEVER! If he is there for close combat, then make him for close combat. 5 attacks on the charge is not nearly as good as 6 attacks.
I agree with the Cleanse and Purify sentiment. For that 1 squad, that extra melta gun will be much more useful then any extra attacks you may get in CC. I usually go for two plasma guns myself for really nice MEQ death, but Melta's kill just as well.
I always bring my Devs with 8 men. As your only heavy hitting Anti-Tank force on the table, their gonna get targetted a lot. Your going to want those extra ablative wounds. Cover saves aren't going to help you against 30 Shuriken Catapult shots a turn.
Nights Justice Space Marines
Eldar Eth Kariel Craftworld
Spear of Kurnous - High Elf Expeditionary Army
And True Grit is not nearly as effective as you think. Let me break it down for you. You have 9 guys with bolters. That is 8 extra attacks (the vet sarg would have a bolt pistol if you didn't have True Grit), but only if you get assaulted. Becuase the bolter is still a rapid-fire weapon, and you cannot fire it if your gonna charge. So like I said, it's useless against any list that is not gonna assault you. But lets crunch some numbers against marines. The 8 extra attacks you do are normal non-power weapon attacks. Half of them will miss and only half of those will wound. So that is 2 extra wounds. Which statistically is less then 1 dead marine. So you spent 30 points to kill 2/3rds of a marine. Or you could take C&P and an extra plasma gun and for 15 points kill more then 1.5 marines. Look at it like this. The extra attacks you gain from TyBB are all non-power weapon attacks. Against any list with a 3+ save, normall attacks just are not worth very much. If you're fighting an army with a worse save, you don't really NEED the extra attacks to win combat and make them run away anyway.
And the extra 2 guys in the dev squad is not to make them more suvivable. Your right, 6 marines at long distance are pretty tough. The extra 2 guys are so you can take 2 more wounds before you have to start removing Heavy Weapons. 1 bolter for every heavy weapon. It's a pretty good rule.
Last edited by Sinjin; November 14th, 2006 at 18:46.
Perhaps but even against 3+ save models True Grit has served me well as by the time anything has got close enough to assualt them the devestator squads have visited merry hell on them with 8 krak missles a turn meaning my tactical marines outnumber the target squad.
Because I believe in flexibility in my squads, if I do have to fight in combat True Grit still gives me an edge that I otherwise do not have wether I am playing against spacemarines, tyranids or eldar.
As for the terminator honours I could remedy this by downgrading the chaplain to a reclusuiarch instead as I do not see much surviving to strike him back by the time he is done. ^_^
Last edited by Jared van Kell; November 15th, 2006 at 17:50.
Goooood list, some thoughts:
I don't think you need T. Honours. That's a whole Marines worth of points for one extra attack.. 5 is more than enough, especially if you run the Chaplain with the Assault Marines, which I would prescribe. Losing your 125 or so point Chaplain to a stray Bright Lance or something would be tragic. With the backup of the Assault Squad, you definitely don't need Honours. I would also drop down to the lower cost Chaplain. Same statline for less points. I have a habit of taking as much as I can, because then if I mess up in battle it has less consequence. Expensive HQs are the enemy of a balanced list, I think.
I'd take a Teleport Homer on your Marine Squad. That way, in case they get in trouble, the Dreadnought can help them out. Plus they're Infiltrated, so it's a safe, close to the enemy Deep Strike.
3 cheers for True Grit. Marines are hard to extricate from cover, so if I played this list, I would send them booking straight for forest or something. Spray the meltagun around as you run for it, then camp down inside a bunker or trench, holding a table edge. Since you don't have the strength of numbers, you'll need the protection. Plus, with TyBB, you'll be as good as you can be in close combat, especially if your charged while in cover.
Looks great with the Land Speeders and Devastators able to hold down armour. Keeping your armour to a minimum in this list will give you an advantage. The only thing I'd worry about is losing that Marine Squad. 20 Space Marines, not counting the Devastators, seems low to me, but of course I don't play without at least 50 , so I can only wish you
2H - LEGIO HYDRA