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Hi I'm new to WH40K, i just started a salamanders army and it consists of:
HQ: MAster of Sanctity
Elites: Terminator Squad (7 marines) with 2 assault cannons
Venerable dreadnought with Las and missile launcher + tank hunter
Dreadnought with assault cannon storm bolter and dreadnought CCW
Fast Attack: Assault squad ( With Master of Sanctity) 8 Marines, powerfist
Troops: Tactical Squad (10 marines) 2 plasma guns ( i have that trait) Serg has powerfist term honours squad is mounted in rhino.
Troops: Tactical squad (10) meltagun and lascannon
Heavy Support: Predator Annihilator with sponson lascannons.
I've lost my first 6 battles, some were close others were massacres lol just wanting to kno if my list is ok and maybe some tips? much appreciated
Not to sound ridiculous or pick at scabs, but why are you losing? Deployment problems? Can't inflict enough enemy casualties? Can't take enough lead? Bad decision making/ tactics? At what point do you realize you're for sure, no point in denying it, going to lose the game? Correctly identifying your shortcomings is the first and most important step in this process.
At a glance, it's hard to say for sure as you're pretty unspecific about the wargear associated with these units, but I'd say a large part of your problem is you don't have enough bodies on the field.
Secondly, keep in mind you're new at this. 40k is one of those things where you learn a lot as you go, especially at first. You'll make some mistakes in your early games that later on you wonder what you were thinking. That's ok! A lot of the rules seem somewhat extraneous until you actually get into the game and realize how important it is to understand them.
Post your full list (namely what equipment, wargear, options, etc.) and what point level you're playing at and I'm sure the good folks around here will be happy to help.
We all carry on,
When our brothers in arms are gone.
So raise your glass high
For tomorrow we die,
And return from the ashes you call.
I agree with Deadmarsh: I am somewhat unsure of what you expect here. Do you want advice regarding your force composition or is that to be taken as granted and only tactical advice wanted, etc...? Knowing who you are up against, how your force is equipped, how you usually chase it about upon the field of battle and where your main problems are would be great help.
I shall try to comment your list, even though it is not very detailed.
Your lascannon tactical squad will probably sit back and give fire support. Bodies are good to protect the heavy weapon and stop the squad from running in face of the first casualties, but that many are not necessary in most cases. Tactical squads are very durable, I'd say that 6 marines are enough for a fire support squad with a heavy and a special weapon. But the melta gun in there is not really much help, if the squad is to sit back and spit lasery hell because it has only very short range. Why not take a plasma gun instead?
Your other tactical squad is a bit of an allrounder (more than standard marines are anyway). It depends very much on your style of play if you profit from such units (because you are very flexible and spontaneous, and you love surprises for example), but for me that's a waste of points on most occassions. I like to have my squads optimized for one task, and so I suggest to either let them hang about in their transport (dropping the power fist), shooting plasma from the fireports (not a very good idea, if you ask me, because the Rhino will either be stationary or will have to be too close to enemy units... and Rhinos are NOT very tough) or make them a mechanized close combat squad (keeping the power fist but either exchanging the plasma guns for meltas [and therefore give that mechanized squad some good tank hunting capabilities] or just dropping them at least). Ten bodies are fine for the CC squad, but the shooty squad will get along with less (6-.
Concerning the Dreadnoughts: cool and fluffy models, but I'm not a fan of them in the game. I view them as very vulnerable (okay, I fight Gauss-spitting Necs or rending Genestealers most of the time) and too slow to be of much effect for their points cost. If you really want to keep them, then at least give them extra armour. Think of maybe swapping Venerable to the CC Dread. Smoke launchers help them survive too. The hellfire Dread does not really need tank hunters unless you are up against much AV13+. Remember that in most cases, a lucky shot or a powerfisted squad leader or a monstrous creature or a rending shot/CC attack kill a Dreadnought far easier than a bunch of marines (and you can have another 6man tac squad with lascannon for the price of a basic Dreadnought). You really do have a small body count for the number of vehicles in your force (I usually have at least 20+ marines, not counting Terminators, bikes, scouts, etc before I put in the first vehicle, and that's usually something light like a speeder or a Whirlwind). Think about a droppod for your CC Dread, if you ever want him to reach the enemy.
Your assault squad should take up some extra bodies, if you can spare the points. Use the points from the marines you dropped on the tac squad to max out this one. Maybe you also want a plasma pistol or two, but that's very optional.
I would recommend that you swap the Predator for Devastators. I am not a fan of vehicles, and four missile launchers are by far more versatile (and possibly more durable) than an all-laser Pred. At least take heavy bolter sponsons, of you keep the tank. That will enable you to shoot some even though you have moved - what's the point of a mobile firing platform that's not mobile?
If you need to free some more points for any changes: drop one Terminator. I usually take squads of 6 with 2 assault cannons, and they work out fine. But to make them more efficient you should think about handing out teleport homers - maybe to your assault and mechanized tac squads. Deepstrike the Terminators, that will keep them from foot-slogging all the way in.
So, Deadmarsh is right: More bodies, less vehicles. Think about some of the details and optimize your list, if possible. I bet that'd be the first step towards winning...
About losing: It's perfectly okay. As long as you learn from your defeat.
Tactically speaking my advice is: Try not to spread your troops about too much. Don't let the assault squad charge into the enemy alone: try to keep up with the Rhino-squad (hopefully optimized for CC), the lascannon tac squad, hellfire Dread and Pred all the while giving fire support and picking off enemy tank hunters first (because otherwise they will kick your Dreads' and Pred's behinds), dangerous counterchargers second (in some cases you have to change priorities of course). The Terminators and CC Dread should then be the deciding reinforcements for your front line.
Remember that the CC Dread is best used against infantry (without power fists or equivalents!) and wins only by Morale (due to its few attacks). So either hit squads that will run and be massacred, or bind fearless, otherwise dangerous squads that are unable to harm him (Khorne Berzerkers without a powerfisted Champion, for example).
And don't play into your enemy's strengths! If you play against a superior CC force, then keep your fast units back and use them for purposes of countercharging and binding exclusively!
Bah. This must seem very confusing. I am sorry, but I guess I am not of any help until the problems have been specified (what enemy? where's the weakness that opens the gate for defeats? etc).
without going into detail at thsi point I tend to agree with the others, the list smacks of a like of "Toys" or a specific style of playing, the real strength of an army comes from its troops, how are you using them?
Everything you have been told is a lie!
Another little thing on freeing points: if you need some more, then dismiss your Master of Sanctity and replace him with a lower-ranking Reclusiarch. Since Ld is seldom a problem in a Chaplain-led squad (being fearless rocks) all you lose is a wound while basically gaining another Marine (or whatever else you want/need to buy). In my experience this one wound almost certainly will not come into play. With your armor save, your invulnerable save, your bodyguard unit, your high initiative, many (on the charge rerollable) attacks (I hope your Chaplain has THonors... if not: rather a Reclusiarch with THonors than a Master of Sanctity without) will keep your Chaplain from being wounded. At least mine don't die (and I almost exclusively use Reclusiarchs...).
Well, your list is pretty darn close to mine and I've done ok. Might be just pride talking here but if you're losing regular like I don't think its your lineup. There are a few things to do to improve on it but nothing all that major. So from this info I'm going to say the problem lies in how they are being used, bad luck, those sorts of things. Perhaps you can give us a battle reports on some of your fights, or the next one if you don't recall the previous ones. I'd be happy to help as I can any fellow marine
Id suggest you read all of the tacticas, there you will find the greatest collection on tactics assembled on any forum.
Try to pick overall strategies and themes. For example MECH lists use almost all vehicles, they might consists of 3 heavy tanks, and lots of other smaller vehicles and transports.
Now, that might not be what you want, but i noticed you had a lot of vehicles. Its probably not the easiest thing to play either. However its theme is armor, and it can win games by overwhelming the opponents anti tank.
Other armies have no heavy tanks. These are the two main splits in space marine theory - to mass armor or not to mass armor.
Mixing armor and marines will get you into trouble, which is exactly what your experiencing right now. You have too many squads outside of tanks to be considered MECH, And way to many tanks to play the latter.
Now inside each style of list, there are styles of play which lean towards more assaulty, and more shooting. MECH lists can be quite assaulty, or very shooty, and the same goes for none heavy tank lists. Some times you can find benefit in leaning mostly to one end of the spectrum. But this comes at a price. You might notice a super assaulty lists works on all your opponents, except orks and nids. This is called balance, orcs and almost always out assault space marines. so if a marine list is uber assaulty he may lack the fire power to thin the orcs down enough before getting into CC with any chance of winning. However if the marine player doesn't have enough assault power, the orc player might get to his lines too quickly, with no hope of count charge the marine player loses.
That said, being a perfectly balanced army will often allow more specialized armies to overwhelm one particular aspect of your list, such as the MECH list earlier. Which attempts to overwhelm Anti tank weapons. Of course a MECH list might run into a great tank hunting army like Tau and be slaughtered. Everything has its trade offs.
Anyway, your lists isn't looking so hot.
I don't know how much reform your willing to do on your list, but i think salamanders make for great drop podders.
It puts cleanse and Purify to great use. Drop pods tend to fit best into the no heavy tanks category, despite the massed unit of vehicles (drop drop pods)
Again to learn more about space marines, I suggest looking at the Space Marine Tacticas thread. Here
Sigh, but someone hasn't fixed the links yet. Off to bother a Certain Super mod.. Good luck with the list.