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Thread: Sneaky Guard

  1. #1
    Formerly Prince of Excess EmoJosh's Avatar
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    Sneaky Guard

    This is a Guard army I will be making out of Vallhallan models, I have more than half. It's very unconventional, I've never seen a Guard army like it which will add to it's power. What does an army do when it's boxed in a corner by 140 angry Communists? *tear*

    HQ: Junior Officer w/ Honorifica Imperialis, Laspistol CCW, Light Infantry
    1 Lasgunner 3 Melta Gunners
    1 Mortar Squad = 185 pts

    Troops:
    Junior Officer w/ Light Infantry, Laspistol CCW
    1 Las Gunner, 3 Melta Gunners

    2x Squads w/ 1 Flamer, Vet. Sargeant w/ Lasgun, Light Infantry and Close Order Drill (All squads have the same Doctrines and the Vet. Sarge.)

    Junior Officer w/ Light Infantry Laspistol CCW
    1 Las Gunner 3 Melta Gunners

    5x Squads w/ 1 Flamer

    Junior Officer w/ Light Infantry Laspistol CCW
    1 Las Gunner 3 Melta Gunners

    5x Squads w/ Melta Guns

    This army has everything I personally like, I don't care what you like. It has redundancy (screw one of a unit) Anti-Vehicle (I hate vehicles!) and a ton of Infiltrating firepower! (Best rule in the game) The idea is get within Rapid Fire and unleash a hail of firepower that no enemy could withstand. The gallery of Melta weapons should ensure no Vehicles will play break out and even Deathwin won't resist at the Lasguns and templates. The Mortars can lay down some Pinning fire on any squad thinking of Assaulting after it gets shot to tatters. Now bring on the comments. :] GLORY TO THE MOTHERLAND!

    Check my Blog for Battle Reports, useless ranting and more! Comments appreciated.
    Like to talk Warhammer or want some advice on Armies or Tactics? Drop me a PM!

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  3. #2
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    Okay...first things first.

    1. You need 2 men to man the lascannon. you can either have 4 meltaguns or 2 meltaguns and 1 lascannon...I prefer the first one since infiltrators need some mobility.

    2. Close Order Drill isn't that useful under infiltration since movement and cover is crucial. It is farely hard to keep yourself together in a fat bunch while moving around cover avoiding ordnance. It is more useful for low leadership units like conscripts. It also isn't as fluffy. If you want high leadership use Iron Discipline. You have Ld 8 anyways.

    3. Too much anti-tank. Unless you are playing Deathwing and Armoured Company every game you can drop some of it. Squad meltaguns waste potential when shooting at tanks. I recommend something with better strength, range or volume or fire. In fact any of the other three are good choices. It's not like 16 meltaguns or 8 meltas and 4 lascannons is not enough a-t.

    4. How many points please...?

    5. I really, really like this army...consider it stolen....:yes:

  4. #3
    Mr Commisar to you Commisarlestat's Avatar
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    This army is all very good apart from if you meet say a slaanesh army, they hit first always they get into combat so quick the flamers are useless and cos you are all bunched then well theyll just eat through. put it this way my mate fielded a unit of championy type things that have a ridiculous 40 something attacks on the charge with -1 int to you and then they charge 12" units like this will destroy this army and i see know way you can combat it.

    I have tried tactics like this before against a guard army and you need at least sentinels and as it barely worked against guard id like to see if it will work against others. i just dont see how im afriad. now if you infiltrated heavy weapons or put them in vet squads to go with this army then it would be amazing, a few more powerswords, a banner in the main command and the occaisional hardened fighters, rough riders would coomplement sooo well and as far as fluff they can be cossacks which fits with the russian horde.

    Could you give a fairly full run down of tactics against say a conventional guard army (just pick one that his been posted and give a link)

    Thanx
    hope that helps

    A

  5. #4
    Senior Member Abraham Lincoln's Avatar
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    It is definitely a rarely used idea, but I am not really a fan of massed lasgun fire. There's a good thread going at the moment you should check out about it - but my stance is, lasguns are great, but NEVER count on them to do anything important.

    You are going to be playing at a serious disadvantage, by not taking any heavy weapons. And light infantry on everyone is going to bring your squishy little soldiers dangerously close to some armies you won't like.

    This list could probably work well against some types of hordie armies, like other guard, maybe some eldar, possibly Tau too, but I don't think it's a particularly good strategy against MEQ's, who will just pass all their armor saves and proceed to rip through your flak vests like tissue paper.

    And I would absolutely love to face this list with my Tyranids, we would be getting a first-turn charge right off the bat and it would rapidly go downhill from there. Or, if you didn;t infiltrate against me, you wouldn't have the ranged firepower to dent me and you would just get eaten second turn instead.

    Bottom line is, you really need to bring the whole range of tools, especially lascannons, missile launchers, and heavy bolters. Flamers and melta weapons are my two least favorite guns in the Guard arsenal, especially in regular line squads. You'll only get one chance to use them, right before you get charged/rapid-fired, and chances are they won't be able to save you.
    Armies:
    Tyranids: 2500 pts
    Imperial Guard: 1000 pts
    Witch Hunters: 1000 pts

  6. #5
    Formerly Prince of Excess EmoJosh's Avatar
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    1st Comment reply: Feel free to steal it, makes me proud I invented a good army, even though this is the rough list and Las Gunner is not Las Cannon but it's smaller cousin. I believe that's a one man weapon. :] You don't HAVE to use Close Order Drill! *gasp* It's free so I always throw it in. I like Melta Guns because I think they're nifty and I hate hate hate plasma.

    2nd Comment reply: Banners, Vet. Squads. Pwr Weapons etc. are all for idiotic Guard players in my opinion. When I see them I laugh because it's more points easily plucked away. Conventional armies will never ever win against anyone worth playing because they know how to take you apart in 3 turns. One original army can beat twice it's points, I've done it.

    3rd Comment reply: Last I checked, Infiltrate never said I had to be close, it said I could, so your Tyranids will have to move a bit. I play tested this army against Chaos (Minor Victory) Tau (Minor Victory) and Orks (Solid Victory to them) so it confirmed what I suspected, I need to amass a bit more firepower. In all three games my opponents big guns went to 100% waste and they had trouble knowing exactly what to do because of A. Originality and B. Lack of different targets, unit whise. Lastly; everything shall always count in large amounts and I'd love to see the squad of Emperor's finest who can take all those laser bolts to the head, lasguns are Guards greatest weapon. Tanks will be penetrated and some men will falter but the lasgun is forever. Plus line Guard is boring, give me something I might lose too. Check out the new list at http://www.librarium-online.com/foru...tml#post891907
    Check my Blog for Battle Reports, useless ranting and more! Comments appreciated.
    Like to talk Warhammer or want some advice on Armies or Tactics? Drop me a PM!

  7. #6
    Mr Commisar to you Commisarlestat's Avatar
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    Righhhhhht.

    First off how are vets conveentional?
    my 'conventional' guard army as you put it is mounted in scratchbuilt halftracks and is designed around assault dont see that being very conventional.
    There is also no conventional army just good units. vets are super cheap for what they are, for the price of your infantry squad i could get a five man vet team all tricked out with decent weapons that would actually kill something (oh and they come with infiltrate making them cheaper)
    conventional armies will never win against anyone worth playing. Thats a tad big headed. surprise doesnt only have to be inyour army list good tatcics is generally what makes me win and i do take some pretty fluffy and underpowered armies.
    meltas are possibly the worst weapon ever against infantry you get one use if you are lucky and well thats got less than a well its not good. flamers i do like and i use a lot they are good but you need to get right in amongst the enemy so pretty hard to do when walking p to them. Banners arent stupid they are useful for X pts your men get a choice whether to run or not. anything that puts the action into your hands is a god choice.

    Oh and yes of course a very cheap power weapon in an army that will be in assault is stupid thats where i have been going wrong i must let them have armour saves.
    Points more easily plucked away. right so my man costs more than yours and has carapace. yours doeesnt get an armour save to nearly all weapons around mine does and doesnt cost ahuge amount more. How, oray tell, is that more points easily plucked away.
    Combined arms forces in modern warfare are proven to be the best it is the way that technology has progressed. as anothe rposter said advance this army against tyranids anyou will die.
    As your less than impressive track record so far shows it doesnt work. the army when fighting against a clsoe combat army got thrashed. his big guns went to waste well a conventional infantry army can do that. personally i dont take lascannons and rely on multilas to the rear armour for my antitank so my army would be in no way disadvantaged.

    Please think before you post.

    A

  8. #7
    Formerly Prince of Excess EmoJosh's Avatar
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    Look we can post back at forth to each other and it will do no good, you'll play your way and I'll play mine. If you like Vets, more power to you, I'm just a fan of a small core of units repeated many times over. The list is still evolving and I have to begin playtesting the new version. I did include a Company Banner but more because I want a fun conversion project in the army. One point though, don't say Think before you post. It makes you look like an asshole, no offence.

    Have a Guard of a day! :]
    Last edited by EmoJosh; March 19th, 2007 at 16:21.
    Check my Blog for Battle Reports, useless ranting and more! Comments appreciated.
    Like to talk Warhammer or want some advice on Armies or Tactics? Drop me a PM!

  9. #8
    Senior Member Abraham Lincoln's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Prince of Excess View Post
    Look we can post back at forth to each other and it will do no good, you'll play your way and I'll play mine.
    I hate when people use that line. If you didn't want to hear criticism of your idea, then why did you post it? The whole point is for people to help point out the weaknesses in your army, so you can improve on it. Not just argue with him about why your list is already perfect.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Prince of Excess View Post
    One point though, don't say Think before you post. It makes you look like an asshole, no offence.
    I think what he meant by "think before you post" is don't just instantly come to your list's defence, instead it might be worthwhile to consider the feedback you got.

    Well I'm done helping you with your list, you seem pretty sure of yourself so you must not need any more feedback. May the Emperor guide your lasguns, for the good of Mankind.
    Armies:
    Tyranids: 2500 pts
    Imperial Guard: 1000 pts
    Witch Hunters: 1000 pts

  10. #9
    Formerly Prince of Excess EmoJosh's Avatar
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    I mostly post to hear hear feedback but I rarely hear anything I consider good but sometimes I do so it's worth it. I'am pretty sure of myself but I have reason to be and I happened to not agree with any of the criticism on here. You guys should really post on the updated list, as this one is no longer going to be built.
    Check my Blog for Battle Reports, useless ranting and more! Comments appreciated.
    Like to talk Warhammer or want some advice on Armies or Tactics? Drop me a PM!

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