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After spending a few days studying my Codex, i belive i have come up with a BT army that can challenge a tau army.
1 master of sanctity with jump pack, teleport homer, and master Crozarius, infiltrate
10 marine command squad, all with terminator honors, jump packs, power weapons, bolt pistols, and combatshields
Emporer's champion with uphold the honor of the emporer
10 initiate crusader squad in rhino with Plasma cannon marine
2 empty razorbacks with las cannons
2x 5 man crusader squad with las cannons,
2x 5 man assault squads
drop pod dreadnaught
2x 5 man termysquads with 2 assault cannons each.
total aprox, 2500pts
infiltrate the chaplain and command squad jump and assault first turn if possible,
deploy rhino with squad in center field try to run as far up the center that you can
both razor backs on the flanks with assault squads following behind
5man squads stand back and support
drop the dread in about turn 3 or 4
telleport termys 2nd or 3rd turn.
hit them from both sides essentialy
what do you think? questions comments
*ps* specifically designed to take down an undefeated tau player who takes 3 broadsides 2 hammerheads, pathfinders, 2 or 3 firewarrior squads and a bunch of crissis suits with crisis shasui. he is highly anti marine. :cry:
I'm not getting where you see that black templar command squads can take jump packs, and is the chaplain getting infiltrate from the command squad? If so it isn't annotated in this.
Blais's Paint Studio-Getting broken armies good soft scores since 2009
also, you can't choose when to roll reserves rolls for what, they are all rolled at the beginning of every turn.
Other than that it is a decent list, and should therefore be in the army list section (up near the top of the SM section).
Turtles For the Turtle God!
Shells For the Shell Throne!
Yeah, all in all it doesn't really appear to me that you know what your doing--at all, basically.
It's unclear what you think that command squad is doing, but even were an infiltrating command squad with chaplain--all equipped with jump packs--legal, it probably wouldn't be worthwhile--even against tau. It would, in theory, be a ton of points. In actuality, I'm pretty positive it's cheating, so better avoid it altogether.
Beyond that, yes--deep-striking dreadnoughts are pretty good against tau, but you don't really get much say on when they come in. Teleporting terminators is pretty much always a bad idea. They have shots from turn one, basically--go ahead and start them on the table. Also, while their guns are very good against Tau, A tau army geared towards marine fighting will have a lot of stuff that obviates their armor save--which makes them an iffy investment, really.
Two razorbacks are a waste of points. They might not be in every list and every situation, but they are in yours against a tau player. I mean, seriously. Railguns punch Rhinos like paper, and you just don't have other tanks to absorb fire. Relying on them to protect assault marines on the way up is like relying on paper-mache armor in a sledge-hammer fight.
Also, two five man assault squads? It's a lot like having one ten man assault squad, except they're more likely to run away. Bad plan.
"Smart" is not the word I would use to describe this list. The word I would pick, I think, would have to be "bad". It's bad against most things, and (ironically) it seems especially bad against Tau. Try again.
Actually, if you want to beat your tau player buddy, build a bike army. Take nothing but five-man bike squads with power-fists and meltas, and one budget chaplain or FotD toting librarian (also on a bike). Turbo boost everything first turn, and watch as he fails to kill enough guys to win him the game (otherwise known as every model in your army) on that first turn.
Charge, rinse, repeat.
The powerfists are for getting through suits and broadsides quickly, and the meltas are for shooting down those tanks when necessary (though, really, you should spend absolutely as much time in combat as possible, and ignore the tanks until there really is no other option.)
If you want to cheese a list against Tau, play the Swift as the Wind army--or, really, most any army other than the one you suggested above
ohh.. Im sorry i thought a model with terminator honors could take equipment from the armoury.
Yes sorry the chaplain Does get infiltrate from the command squad.
Btw im Black Templar i cant take a librarian
I could still Infiltrate the Chaplain with the command squad, what equipment could i possibley put in the command squad that would be effective against tau
The two assault squads are supposed to be seperate. They each go up a flank with a razorback both with melta guns and a powerfist.
By using both flanks i intend to split his fire and try to run the rhino up the center or if he focuses fire in the center run the two assault squads up the flanks
I know i cant determine when my units come in from reserves but i can determine which turns i attempt to roll.
Also all tanks are there to draw fire. I'd rather have them fire at razor backs than a pred or an assault squad for that manner.
Equipment in an infiltrating command squad will be largely superfluous. I'd consider one powerfist, but not much else. If virtually any of your guys get into melee, you'll win the melees you're in. Tooling up isn't worthwhile.I could still Infiltrate the Chaplain with the command squad, what equipment could i possibley put in the command squad that would be effective against tauObviously. It's still a bad plan. It's also still worse than simply having one single larger assault squad.The two assault squads are supposed to be seperate. They each go up a flank with a razorback both with melta guns and a powerfist.Assuming that his ability to allocate fire will decrease simply because you put your guys on different parts of the board is silly. It's not like a unit shoots at an area of space--a unit shoots at another unit. Splitting your guys up spatially doesn't 'split your opponent's fire' any more than simply splitting them into to units does. It's still a bad plan.By using both flanks i intend to split his fire and try to run the rhino up the center or if he focuses fire in the center run the two assault squads up the flanksNo, you can't. You roll for each unit in reserve, every turn, until it comes into play. You have absolutely no say in the matter. The book is clear on this.I know i cant determine when my units come in from reserves but i can determine which turns i attempt to roll.Also all tanks are there to draw fire. I'd rather have them fire at razor backs than a pred or an assault squad for that manner.
Putting a unit in just to draw fire is almost certainly a bad idea. Putting razorbacks in to draw railgun fire away from a rhino is a really bad idea. You don't have a predator in the list above, and those individual rail gun shots will only earn your opponent victory points faster by shooting at transports. Your opponent might accidentally start being an idiot and sending his shots off at the wrong targets, but he might do that anyway--wasting points on tanks won't really have any impact on that score. And, in case it was unclear, those tanks are a waste of points. Rhinos are iffy anyway--rhinos against a decidedly rail-gun-heavy force are even worse.
Like I said. This is a bad list. It's a really bad list to play against a good Tau army. Try it if you want, but you asked for advice and my advice is, simply, "don't."
I play Tau, and let me just say (nicely) that I would love to see this list across from me. Really, Bean had it right, railguns make love to razorbacks in a very bloody fashion.
He also had it right at the splitting fire thing. Tau units that have anti-MEQ weaponry can only come in groups of 3. He will have a couplse of these units, so by splitting your assault squad you are actualy giving him easier to eliminate targets.
He was also right about the bikes, Tau struggle against seriously bike heavy armies. Bikes are the best to use against Tau, along with an infantry heavy list. Neither of which is yours. You might consider either a landraider crusader +large squad, plus lots of regular troops and jet or bike troops. But definately not razor-backs. They might be good for transporting devastators, but not really.
Also, per the question about taking wargear that is good vs. Tau, the Tau have 1 special character (that nobody takes) that ignores armor saves in CC and nothing else. They don't have knives, or the option for CC weapons. You will win every CC you get in by a lot without any wargear ('cept for kroot, just shoot those). The master of sanctity is really good as is.
If the Tau guy lets your melta guns get with in range of his skimmers, the rest of the battle should go smoothly.
Turtles For the Turtle God!
Shells For the Shell Throne!
I agree with LittleBlueMan. I play both tau and black templar, and if I saw a bunch of razor backs, or small units of marines, I'd already be moving on to the next game in my mind. It's too easy to beat.
For me when I play tau (relatively aggressively) the thing I hate is the huge squad of 15 or so marines (in the right army combination). They can die to mass fire just like anyone else, but it seems that a 15 man squad can typically survive a whole round of shooting from the tau army, and then they move up, effectively negating the FOF & JSJ ability of the crisis suits. Couple this squad to a chaplain w/ 3 CS, and they move a lot. While the whole tau army is shooting at the large squad, then bikes/jump troops are screaming up the side.
If they choose to take on the assault squad, they'll die, but leave the bikes and 15 man squads ready to hit home. The same with the bikes.
So bikes, 15+ man squads (PF & Meltaguns), few vehicles. Basically multiple threats that can get into CC. If you have one or two marines into combat with a tau unit (not necessarily kroot, but tau) you stand a good chance of winning.
Just my two cents.
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Ok thanks guys that makes sense so i got what i wanted ill write up and post a better list.