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  1. #1
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    My new 1750 point tournament list--- need opinions/advice

    HQ-

    1) Command Squad:
    100
    Junior Officer w/ H. Imperialus, lasgun
    1x Guardsmen w/ lasgun
    1x guardsman w/ lasgun, Master-vox
    2x Guardsmen w/ Mortar
    95
    Attatched anti-tank support squad w/ 3x rocket Launcher

    TROOPS-

    1) Infantry Platoon:

    45
    Junior Officer w/ las pistol
    3x guardsmen w/ las pistols
    1x guardsman w/ laspistol, vox
    98
    7x guardsmen w/ lasguns
    1x guardsman w/ lasgun, vox
    1x guardsman w/ grenade launcher
    1x guardsman w/ lascannon
    98
    7x guardsmen w/ lasguns
    1x guardsman w/ lasgun, vox
    1x guardsman w/ grenade launcher
    1x guardsman w/ lascannon
    98
    7x guardsmen w/ lasguns
    1x guardsman w/ lasgun, vox
    1x guardsman w/ grenade launcher
    1x guardsman w/ lascannon

    2) Infantry Platoon:

    45
    Junior officer w/ las pistol
    3x guardsmen w/ las pistols
    1x guardsman w/ las pistol, vox
    85
    7x guardsmen w/ lasguns
    1x guardsman w/ lasgun, vox
    1x guardsman w/ plasma gun
    1x guardsman w/ heavy bolter
    85
    7x guardsmen w/ lasguns
    1x guardsman w/ lasgun, vox
    1x guardsman w/ plasma gun
    1x guardsman w/ Heavy bolter

    3) Conscript Platoon:
    122
    16x conscripts w/ lasguns
    2x conscripts w/ flamers
    2x conscripts w/ Heavy bolters


    FAST ATTACK-
    120
    1) Hellhound w/ extra armor
    45
    2) 1x Sentinel w/ multilaser


    ELITES-
    50
    1x commissar w/ plasma pistol
    50
    1x commissar w/ plasma pistol


    HEAVY SUPPORT-
    170
    1) Leman Russ w/ lascannon, heavy bolters, extra armor
    170
    2) Leman Russ w/ lascannon, heavy bolters, extra armor
    125
    3) Bassilisk w/ Indirect


    DOCTRINES-

    Close Order Drill
    Sharp Shooters (90)
    Conscripts
    Iron Discipline (15)
    Independent Commissars (20)


    TOTAL-1726

    Add creed/kell= +125



    NOTE: One of the Commissars will join the HQ, the other will join the conscripts. This guarantee's not only leadership 11 (10 is max, but ) to each of the squads with a vox, while the HQ chills in a corner somewhere with it's mortar, but also it makes the conscripts be at Ld. 6 till one gets executed, then they all get Ld. 10, and thus make a great unit for holding up something in HTH combat for a few turns till I can countercharge.

    I'm considering adding Creed and Kell for their 125 points, if not for the standard, leadership, and fighting capabilities, then the ability to demand a reroll for the first turn (should I lose it).


    So yeah... discuss please. Should I add anything? Upgrade less? Take out the bassilisk? Add a demolisher?????? I dunno, I've only really played my Guard in games of 1000 pts or under, or 3000 or above. Any insight would be great.

    Last edited by Crabby_the_Frog; July 9th, 2007 at 04:05.

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  3. #2
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    Creed and Kell are only legal in cadian regiments, and these are definately not cadian doctrines. I know it sux, but it sux more for me because i paid the damn $35 for them before i found that one out.

    You have taken the doctrine iron discipline but not used it anywhere. Remember that it adds to the cost of the officer.

    Dont give conscripts heavy bolters. 1 its more expensive. 2 they can shoot worth sh1t. 3 these guys move foreward and assault things that would rather not assault conscripts, either because they would rather shoot or because its a carnifex/wraithlord/avatar etc. that cant make its points back by killing conscripts.

    Basilisk? get 2 or get none. Anything that doesn't want to get hit can hide in that enourmous blind area, but if you have to and space them out htere is no blind area.

    It takes extra points to take an independant commissar instead of a regular one. You have not accounted for that in this list.

    Smoke launchers would serve you well on many of those vehicles.

  4. #3
    Senior Member BeakeR's Avatar
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    One thing I would suggest is to not put your grenade launchers in the same unit as your lascannons on your infantry squads. The benefit of grenade launchers is their manueverability which is deterred when they're in a unit with a lascannon that never moves.

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    RE. Rabid_IMB:

    Hmm... yeah I suppose that I couldn't take them if they HAVE to be in the "Cadian" listing in the codex. It says on page 50 of the codex that "any Cadian army...", seems a bit silly if you ask me.

    They're amazing characters, and cool looking models, but noone going to ever use them if thats their requirement. No way am I giving up my close order drill and my commissars for them.

    And I guess I'm lucky, I got 'em both in a bundle at one of GW's auctions... about $8 for them plus Guant's ghosts and some Marine hero (Cortez I believe, the old model, not in termi armor but in power armor)...

    Anyway, that sucks. And what would you suggest I give the conscripts then? I know they hit on 5's, but I want them to have SOME fireing support. You'd be amazed woth how often a lucky 5 can happen, especially if it means that the conscripts have a chance of not being charged by a war walker or sentinel (that str 3 does only soo much against armor 10). Hmm... maybe if I take out the bolters but give the commie a power fist...

    And IMO I'd never take a second bassilisk like this. We're playing on small tables here, so if anything, I'll take it right out. Since I'm not taking Kell and Creed, that makes spare points enough for my Demolisher (which is what I was planning). Like I said before, if it were a Wirlwind, I wouldn't hesitate (minimum range only 12" I believe)... I dunno. But yeah, I guess I'll take it right out.

    And smoke launchers???? Possibly. But then again, if my tanks get into a position where they aren't going to be shooting anyway, they're not going to be anywhere near the enemy. Or atleast that's my intention. Well, it is only a few points each (not saying how many 'cuz I've already been yelled at for posting upgrade points )... if I can spare up nine points or so for the 2 lemans and the hellhound... maybe.

    And I have the points for the commies and iron discipline in with my doctrines, as I cannot list them as upgrades for their ammount of points, which is the point is having them down there anyway.


    But cool, thanks for the advice. You've helped more then you know, already. Anything else would be GREAT, when I get around to posting a revised copy.


    RE. Beaker:

    Hmmm...... taking out the grenade launchers does have 1 small problem. I have excess models with them, and I've been looking for an excuse to use them.

    I was thinking origionally to have the 1 platoon better armed for vehicles (lascannon and str 6 grenades do that SOME justice) with the other more directed towards anti infantry/marine. I was considering taking meltaguns instead, but that ruins the point of a 48" lascannon's range, so I though up grenades. I dunno, maybe. I'll do a revise and see what models I have left laying around.

    But thanks tho. I'll be looking foreward to any other tips, also.

  6. #5
    Hellhounds are good tanks Dakka,Dakka,Dakka's Avatar
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    you should swap the missile launchers in the support squad with lascannons in line squads because the only special weapon a lascannon matches with is a plasma gun a missile launcher fits better with a grenade launcher

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    The reason to take smoke launchers is because they can be fired even when the vehicle is shaken or stunned, in which case ur not shooting anyways. The other use is if you have to make a long run (ie more than 6") accross open ground in front of some AT weapons, suddenly they can't get penetrating hits anymore. This is very possible with the demilisher as it doesnt have too much range.

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    Okay, time for an update:

    I've decnded on the changes I want, so here they are:


    Firstlt, I'm cutting out one of the plasma guns from the second platoon's infantry squads. Just one, so the other squad will indeed have one, but this means that they only get a heavy bolter. Also, I'm replacing one of the grenade launchers with a flamer, and removing one of the heavy bolters in the conscript squad.

    That all done with, I can now add smoke launchers to the demolisher, and be sitting at a very nice 1749 points, 1 point under the limit (as opposed to being 21 points over).

    I reason taking out the plasma because I can guarantee that the guardsman's just gonna fry himself, and it's far too many opints for one str. 7 weapon. The conscript's heavy bolter is very expensive, and has a 33% chance to hit only... same applies for the grenadee, which auto-hits, so it makes up for it. And adding smoke, is a wise idea, plus it burns the remaining points I have.


    How's that sound?

  9. #8
    Member Governor-Militant Vespa's Avatar
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    Seems ok, considering the brunt of your battleforce, yet conscripts are little more than meat shields with their low cost and... ahem... "stats". Slapping a heavy bolter in their group does allow you to make them worthwhile, *IF* they hit that is.

    Considering some earlier posts, plasma and lascannon groups and 'nade launchers mixed in with missile launchers are general and very efficient combos, yet I've always been served by good ol' grenade launchers just about anywhere. I can see your force lacks autocannons though, the problem might be irrelevant due to your larger number of heavy bolters, but its still a good idea to include one or two in your squads. Long-range and good str and ap never hurt any guards before!
    What do Khorne Berzerkers say to Necrons after chopping some of their bits off? "BLOOD FOR... Eh? Come on! You just take the fun out of it... Scream! Yell! Awww... not even a trace of guts..." *sniffles and kicks dirt*

    "You can go far with a smile. You can go even further with a smile and a gun"

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    this is just my thing and i am kinda new, i use 3 squads in my platoons as u do, but i use the 3rd squad in each platoon as a heavy weapons suport team, either carring either Autocannons-Mortars-lascannons-heavy bolters. so far ive seen it work great, complete mow downs of tau, SM, and Tyranids.


    BTW, rember ur heavy wepons require 2 guradsmen places to put into a squad and not just 1 :yes:

  11. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crabby_the_Frog View Post
    HQ-

    1) Command Squad:
    100
    Junior Officer w/ H. Imperialus, lasgun
    1x Guardsmen w/ lasgun
    1x guardsman w/ lasgun, Master-vox
    2x Guardsmen w/ Mortar
    95
    For a tournament list I strongly recommend that you switch your Leadership set up a little. It'll help in the fact that you're not putting all your eggs in one basket. Upgrade this officer to a HSO, then give the Honourifica to a Platoon officer. Chuck Iron Discipline on all Officers then drop the Vox network. Pound for Point, using Bubbles is more efficient and gives you a safety net.

    In addition, paying for a Standard Bearer is a great investment.

    Attatched anti-tank support squad w/ 3x rocket Launcher
    For 15pts more you can have Lascannons in this unit which are far more devastating. I suggest you upgrade.

    TROOPS-

    1) Infantry Platoon:

    45
    Junior Officer w/ las pistol
    3x guardsmen w/ las pistols
    1x guardsman w/ laspistol, vox
    98
    This unit isn't doing anything else, so it's a prime candidate to be upgraded into your second Leadership Node. Remember, keep this unit hidden.

    7x guardsmen w/ lasguns
    1x guardsman w/ lasgun, vox
    1x guardsman w/ grenade launcher
    1x guardsman w/ lascannon
    98
    7x guardsmen w/ lasguns
    1x guardsman w/ lasgun, vox
    1x guardsman w/ grenade launcher
    1x guardsman w/ lascannon
    98
    7x guardsmen w/ lasguns
    1x guardsman w/ lasgun, vox
    1x guardsman w/ grenade launcher
    1x guardsman w/ lascannon
    Bleh, drop those Grenade Launchers. For a mere 2pts more per unit you get Plasmaguns, go for them or don't bother at all with special weapons.

    45
    Junior officer w/ las pistol
    3x guardsmen w/ las pistols
    1x guardsman w/ las pistol, vox
    An Autocannon or Heavy Bolter wouldn't go to waste in this unit.

    85
    7x guardsmen w/ lasguns
    1x guardsman w/ lasgun, vox
    1x guardsman w/ plasma gun
    1x guardsman w/ heavy bolter
    85
    7x guardsmen w/ lasguns
    1x guardsman w/ lasgun, vox
    1x guardsman w/ plasma gun
    1x guardsman w/ Heavy bolter
    I'd stick the Plasmaweapons in the Lascannon units first, if you really don't want to get rid of those scummy grenade launchers then stick them here.

    3) Conscript Platoon:
    122
    16x conscripts w/ lasguns
    2x conscripts w/ flamers
    2x conscripts w/ Heavy bolters
    I really wouldn't bother with this unit. For the cost you could almost get two more Infantry squads with Heavy Bolters each.

    FAST ATTACK-
    120
    1) Hellhound w/ extra armor
    45
    2) 1x Sentinel w/ multilaser
    Multilasers are the worst variety of Sentinels. Go for Lascannons or Autocannons for back of the board sniping (Autocannons are good to drop and fire on side or rear armour too), or go for a Heavy Flamer and suicide deepstrike on units.

    ELITES-
    50
    1x commissar w/ plasma pistol
    50
    1x commissar w/ plasma pistol
    I wouldn't bother with them, not unless you're going for a counter attack command squad (which in a super strong build, I don't reccommend). If you have indeed decided to make these Independant Commissars, then you've got the cost wrong. With a Plasmapistol they're 60pts each.

    Either way, I don't reccommend Conscripts so these guys can easily go if you need to scrape a few points back.

    HEAVY SUPPORT-
    170
    1) Leman Russ w/ lascannon, heavy bolters, extra armor
    170
    2) Leman Russ w/ lascannon, heavy bolters, extra armor
    125
    3) Bassilisk w/ Indirect
    If you can manage it, drop those Lascannons into Heavy Bolters, but otherwise it's pretty good. Basilisks are great in tournaments as it helps you force the enemy to you and preventing them from just sitting on objectives.

    DOCTRINES-

    Close Order Drill
    Sharp Shooters (90)
    Conscripts
    Iron Discipline (15)
    Independent Commissars (20)
    What have you put Sharp Shooters on? It's only Cost Effective on Support Teams, anywhere else and it's a waste of points.

    TOTAL-1726

    Add creed/kell= +125
    With the Leadership setup I've already described they're not much use. Forget them.

    NOTE: One of the Commissars will join the HQ, the other will join the conscripts. This guarantee's not only leadership 11 (10 is max, but ) to each of the squads with a vox, while the HQ chills in a corner somewhere with it's mortar, but also it makes the conscripts be at Ld. 6 till one gets executed, then they all get Ld. 10, and thus make a great unit for holding up something in HTH combat for a few turns till I can countercharge.
    Commissar bonuses apply to the Leadership special rule. Voxes do not use the Leadership special rule, therefore the bonus does not apply down the vox link. Same for Iron Discipline and Standard Bearers. That's why Nodes are favoured over voxes.

    I'm considering adding Creed and Kell for their 125 points, if not for the standard, leadership, and fighting capabilities, then the ability to demand a reroll for the first turn (should I lose it).
    Often it is more desirable to go second. But I digress, they're not worth the points.


    Karmoon
    ... only triumph could turn pooing his pants into a good thing..

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