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Greetings, all! In my first post here at Librarium, I'd like to present my Elite Killteam. I've just started playing 40K; I've been a long time fan, and longer term gaming junkie, so here I am dropping my hard-earned cash on what is certainly the coolest looking hobby I've found so far.
I think the sheer volume of modeling and painting is what kept me away for so long, I'm an avid war game player, in any medium or style I can try. I'm the one crazy dude that keeps asking for more turn based strategy games to be released on the modern gaming consoles. I still play Dai Senryaku VII for the Xbox, and if you know what I'm talking about, congratulations, your geekdom has been confirmed!
So, without further rambling, here's my layout for a Kill Team. I am collecting and painting Ultramarines right now, I've got two Tactical Squads, and a Devastator Squad, and I'm just waiting for my bonus to get that Megaforce on order. My good friend, GreyHunter (not a member yet, but he's lurking...... somewhere) is collecting Tau. We got through painting one unit each, and, of course, got impatient to play. Grey, who is an experienced player compared to my newbie-dom, suggested we get some Kill Team action going to get me familiar with the game in smaller scale than even a 500 point battle (our original goal). So we painted until we could each field enough brute squads, and, two battles, and two near losses for me later, I've learned a lot. For instance, there is no rule saying that you have to use Troop choices. Silly me, what are basic bolter marines doing in what is supposed to be a Van Damme action movie? Why not go elite?
You'll be heavily outnumbered, argued Grey, and he's right, but I think that's what Marines are made for. Being perhaps a bit expensive, but using each model to the pinnacle of it's potential. Of course, that's going to take as much skill in playing as it will in planning, but here's the plan.
Five Marines, All Assault, All the Time
and here's my calculations on their various role prowess:
Standard Ranged Attack
All Assault weapons allows a 6" move, if within 12", 4 Bolt Pistol shots, Flamer within 5", capable of firing before a charge
Charge into Assault
12 Powersword attacks (3*3 + 3) Str Init , 5 regular attacks Str Init
9 Powersword attacks Str Init , 3 regular attacks Str Init
This breaks a mutable rule twice (No more than one model may have access to wargear twice) for a total give of 2 Brute Squads and 20 points.
My Specialist Kits would most likely be Backstabbers and/or Camo Gear, both for Klaxon management. This could bring the total give to 40 points and two Brute squads.
You probably get the idea... sneak up on the Tau patrols (Initiative 2 Fire Warriors means I'll be able to get plenty close without fear of detection, provided I don't fire) and massacre them with Powersword attacks, killing one unit at a time if possible and not setting off klaxons. I'll never get the "Charging into Assault" stats against the Tau, as the Brute Squads are armed with photon grenades (negates extra attack for charge), but with even 12 attacks, 9 of them ignoring armor, I'll be ripping through squads of three almost without fail. The Furious Charge +1 Str and +1 Init will help for that one turn heavy punch, even though my expected charge attacks aren't there.
And if the Dice Gods favor me, I won't end up with four squads potshotting me from 30" away. Since there is no turn limit, I can hope to hunker down after every accidental klaxon and keep my chances of winning those control rolls to run the Brutes in the opposite direction.
Thanks for the time to read my first post, everyone, I'll be around to listen to your suggestions or tips on this.
Last edited by Lost Nemesis; July 12th, 2007 at 08:31. Reason: Individual points costs are not allowed
Sounds interesting... I've been looking for something good to do with my Ultramarines Veterans so I might have to try it myself. The powerswords may be a bit overkill but ignoring the armour makes it a lot easier to finish them in one round.
Saying that... let us know if your plan survives contact with the enemy :shifty:
This list is, as yet, untested in real combat. I thought the same thing about the powerswords being overkill. I worked up an alternate list with just the Sarge having a powersword, and I can squeeze another two models out of it, and drop Term Honours on one or both other Marines, also dropping the extra two mutable rules breaks. Doing so gives me back 40 points, with which I can buy two more elites with Furious Charge, bolt pistols and chainswords. So I'd loose two attacks, and gain four, for a total of two more attacks in close combat, but 80% of them will allow an Armor Save. I opted to go for the powersword overkill simply because it would take an enormously craptacular To Hit and Wound roll for these five guys not to kill three in a single round on the charge. They charge in and strike in Init 5, hit on a 3+ and wounds on a 2+, and for those 9 powersword attacks, denies the armor save, versus the alternate, which would only get 3 powersword attacks.
Cleanse. Purge. Kill.
It's a very good point, a lot of the method for suceeding in Kill Team relies on your wiping out brute squads asap. With the bolt pistol shots (assuming you choose to shoot, just charging would be better for the klaxon count) and all those attacks, you should be guaranteed to knacker 3 Tau in a single round - heck the sergeant alone probably would!
My goal is to hold fire and rely on the assault every possible turn. That may make the flamer a waste, but I could always drop that for BP/Chainsword and get 5 points for something else. If the klaxon counter is above 3 and I have no way to hunker down and survive without losses, then the camo comes off, Marines charge in with guns blazing, flamer spewing promethium, and just hope I've killed off enough by that point to weather the inevitable couple of losses from being shot at in the open until I can either finish them off, or complete the objective on a suicide run.
This also leads me to wonder if I'd do better using jump-pack equipped assault marines instead (since adding JP's to these elites would throw me WAY over the points limit). I think I'll work up a list of those for my next post.
Also, I find it interesting to note that the effect of Backstabbers is persistent throughout the battle, while Silencers (the shooty equivalent) is only effective on the first round of shooting.
Cleanse. Purge. Kill.
Here's my workup of an assault squad used as a kill team. I could have went with six models here, and dropped the combat shield, plasma pistols, and then maybe the power weapon, but I stuck with the idea of 5 marines because as a new player on a limited budget, I think this would work great for a single boxed unit. Of course, I'll be getting mine in a megaforce box, but at only $25 for another 5 Assault Marines, I can experiment both ways here.
Ultramarines Assault Marine Kill Team
Shooting: 3 Plasma Pistol shots, two Bolt Pistol Shots within 12", can be used after 12" move, and before 6" assault OR Six plasma pistol shots (high chance of loosing 1-2 wounds to Gets Hot) and 4 Bolt Pistol shots if stationary inside 12"
Charging into Assault: Jump 12", shoot with option 1 Assault 6", 4 attacks with Power Weapon, 12 regular attacks
In Assault: 3 Attacks with Power Weapon, 8 regular attacks
Breaks no mutable or unmutable rules (correct me if I'm wrong) All from same unit, weapons are all by unit type, Sarge has exactly 40 points of wargear and is the only model with access to it)
Specialist Kit: Backstabbers - points
Secondary Specialist Kits: Camo Gear, maybe Distraction for an Oops...
Basically, the Sarge is expensive, but gets his extra attack for a base 3 with the Powersword. He has a plasma pistol because while so few must accomplish so much, there's no time to risk on armor saves. Because of the Kill Team rule that any use of jump infantry triggers a klaxon, I'd sneak in on foot, trying to Backstab one Brute Squad at least before I was discovered, hopefully up to three at times (I think the CC prowess of the unit will destroy 3 Drones or Fire Warriors a turn, once again, I'm anti-Tau at the moment, and I'd appreciate tips on working against other races as Brute Squads). I would try to take the first unit on foot without firing any of the pistols, and hope that massacres it in one turn, then repeat until discovered, then, when the klaxons are out of control anyway, I can jump into assault with those long range shooty warriors, three plasma pistols and two bolt pistols blazing before a really pissed off Sarge crashes into the patrol. Total charge range is 18" for jumping infantry, so against a really wide crossfire, I'd hopefully only weather one turn if any cruising in the open inside the 30" Tau rifle range. Against packed units it would be ugly in my favor, especially if they pile in or I can consolidate into another unit.
The one weakness I can think off is a take and hold objective. If they had to mount a static defense in some manner against shooters, they'd have no chance. If they jetted out to engage one, another could sneak in behind and take the objective. If they stay without full cover, they're sitting ducks...
On the other hand, I don't think I could make a unit better at Escape or Hit and Run.
Last edited by Lost Nemesis; July 12th, 2007 at 08:32.
Cleanse. Purge. Kill.
Hi, two things:
First, you broke forum rules by posting stats and individual points costs. Only UNIT totals are okay, you cannot post individual costs. I took the liberty of editing your post.
Second, even Kill Teams are army lists, so should be posted in the Army Lists subforum. I'll go ahead and move this thread for you.
Please keep these two points in mind for the future. Thanks.
To be honest I'd never think a Jump Pack Assault Squad good for kill team. The jump packs are good if you need to make a rapid escpae or all cover is blown... but in the normal course of Kill-team play they will be a helluva waste of points when you don't want to use them for fear of a stack of klaxon counters bigger than king kong's first dump of the day.
Plasma pistols are nice in 40k, but in KT they are too much of a liability... 6 unlucky dice rolls could result in 3/5 of your squad members dead... and it if it can happen, chances are it will happen! That aside, they are also severely overkill for kill team, as you are highly unlikely to face anything with a save or toughness to justify the expenditure save the big "boss". Maybe give one to the squad (not the sergeant though) but certainly no more than that!
The combat shield is also a bit OTT as again it is only the boss you would need it against, and the points you save could be used better elsewhere - if you do want an overkill sergeant who can assassinate the enemy commander easily, give him a Storm Shield and a Power Fist so he can weather the worst of the enemies' attacks and them smash him into the ground like a tent peg!
Personally I still think the Veterans are a better option due to their ability to take Furious Charge and the greater availability of power weapons.
Gee, thanks for being so polite about it.
And thanks for sending me a PM so I can find my thread after you moved it on me.
And thanks for your maturity in explaining these problems in open forum, instead of in a PM somewhere. A thread always looks so much better with some heavy mod-hand comment halfway down.
Cleanse. Purge. Kill.
Quite simply put, I was polite about it - you don't want to see me not be polite.
I was also assuming you could find the "Army Lists" subforum yourself, as it is a subforum in the main forum where you had posted your list.
Also, I posted in here for the sake of anyone else who wants to post their army lists in the wrong forum, or post individual costs.
If you want heavyhanded, I can give you heavyhanded, but until then, you'll have to deal.
Take care, and next time, feel free to PM me if you have any issues.