Ultramarines 2000 pts vs Eldar - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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  1. #1
    Knight-Champion chrispcarter's Avatar
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    Ultramarines 2000 pts vs Eldar

    Ultramarines – 2001 Points

    HQ

    Marneus Calgar, Ultramarines Chapter Master
    Lord Macragge with Gauntlets of Ultramar, bionic eye, terminator honours, frag and krak grenades and Terminator armour.

    Epistolary Agiustus
    Epistolary with Terminator armour, storm bolter, Master-Crafted force weapon, psychic hood, and the psychic power veil of time.

    Chaplain Andronas
    Master of Sanctity with Terminator Armour, Master-Crafted Crozius Arcanum, Rosarius, and storm bolter.

    Terminator Command Squad
    Terminator Sergeant with purity seals, bionics, master-crafted power sword and storm bolter. 2 Terminators with assault cannon and power fist, and 2 Terminators with storm bolters and chainfists. All models (including Lord Calgar, Epistolary Agiustus, and Chaplain Andronas) have the Furious Charge skill.

    ELITES

    III Veteran Squad
    Veteran Sergeant with power fist, bolt pistol and teleport homer, 1 Veteran with Lightning Claws, 1 Veteran with Power Axe and bolt pistol, 2 Veterans with chainswords and bolt pistols. All Veterans have Terminator Honours and frag grenades, as well as the Infiltrate skill.

    Dreadnought I
    Venerable Dreadnought Adox with assault cannon, power fist and built in storm bolter, extra armour, smoke launchers and the Furious Charge skill.

    TROOPS

    Tactical Squad I
    Veteran Sergeant with purity seals, bolt pistol and chainsword. 1 Marine with plasma gun, 1 Marine with missile launcher and 7 Marines with bolters.

    Tactical Squad II
    Veteran Sergeant with auspex and bolter. 1 Marine with plasma gun, 1 Marine with heavy bolter and 7 Marines with bolters.

    Scout Squad II
    Veteran Scout Sergeant with auspex and sniper rifle, 3 Scouts with sniper rifles and 1 Scout with heavy bolter.

    Scout Squad III
    Sergeant and 3 Scouts with sniper rifles and 1 scout with missile launcher.

    HEAVY SUPPORT

    Devastator Squad X
    Sergeant with bolter, 2 Marines with lascannons, 2 Marine with missile launchers and 5 Marines with bolters.

    Whirlwind II
    Whirlwind artillery tank loaded with Vengeance missiles and pintle-mounted storm bolter.

    ------------------------------------

    A couple of points before the blacklash begins:

    I know the mass of Terminators is cheesy but fact of the matter is the guys in my group dread them, and I love the look on their faces when they appear... I'm waiting for them to actually find a way to beat them before I stop using them!

    I'm taking Veterans because I want to try them out, simple as, so I won't swap them for something else.

    Those points made, any other suggestions / criticisms would be appreciated!

    (PS Please forgive any error in the presentation as I haven't posted a list before!)

    Last edited by chrispcarter; July 12th, 2007 at 22:33.

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  3. #2
    Always Fabulous NiteRabbit's Avatar
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    Let's see here...

    I know it's fun and will totally beat down anyone you come across but I dislike sinking such an ungodly amount of points into an HQ. Calgar and a Terminator Squad if you're really into Termies but I think you can leave the Libby and the Chappy at home for this one. Use the points for something constructive, like buying more Marines. Depending on what kind of Eldar you'll be playing against, you want to catch his units out in the open and shoot them dead or bring down their vehicles so that they will be caught out in the open and you can shoot them dead. More is better against Eldar.

    I'm not sure about the Veterans as there doesn't seem to be much they can do that an ordinary Tactical Squad can't; let me know how they do. The Dreadnought doesn't *need* to be Venerable, nor is Furious Charge really an asset as it is a walker and doesn't really get into close combat very often. Tank Hunters, of course, is only useful on a Hellfire (Lascannon/Missile Launcher) Dreadnought so you can save a few points that way. I like Assault Cannons in any case.

    Missile Launchers just happen to be more points-efficient on Devastator squads than Tactical Squads by comparison to Lascannons but you don't want to get into the habit of taking Lascannon/Plasma Gun squads...I like Heavy Bolter/Plasma Gun as an anti-infantry squad, though. Good idea. I may have to thug that from you at some point... Not a big fan of Scout squads or Sniper Rifles, but if they work for you then go ahead.

    Swap the Lascannons out for Missile Launchers (more point-efficient) and take that Storm Bolter off the Whirlwind, you don't need it. With the points you've saved by trimming off all the fat, you can add a bit more meat from the following:

    - Tactical Squads
    - Tanks?
    - Land Speeders
    - Attack Bikes with multi-meltas?

    With Eldar, it really pays to be able to bring down their tanks...

    Edit: By the by, if the Eldar are Mech, you may want to re-consider Calgar and the Terminators; Mech Eldar love facing Calgar and Terminators.
    Last edited by NiteRabbit; July 15th, 2007 at 06:57.

  4. #3
    Knight-Champion chrispcarter's Avatar
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    Thanks for the tips NiteRabbit, unfortunately it was too late to save me from a sound thrashing at the hands of the eldar.

    My opponent got the first turn and between his war walkers, pathfinders and dire avengers promptly wiped out the Veterans and the aquad of scouts with the Heavy bolter in (even though they all had 4+ inv saves). I hate scatter lasers. Then his Vyper blew the launcher off my Whirlwind (it was hull down, best cover I had in my deployment zone) so the storm bolter on it was the only thing that did anuything!

    The Uber-Terminator Command Squad backfired in a horrendous fashion - I'd hoped to use the infiltrating Veteran's teleport homer to bring them in to do some ownage - unfortunately I managed to failed 2 reserves rolls, so by the time they arrived the other half of my army was in tatters and the majority of the Eldar were still around to fire everything they had at them, and they all shuffled off the mortal coil - with the exception of Marneus Calgar, who was managed to dispatch a squads of both Fire Dragons and Striking Scorpions w/ Exarchs on his own, I like his style heh. Needless to say though, Deep Strike is no longer in my good books anymore! I could have dropped the Veterans and Scouts that couldn't even survive to my first turn and buy a Crusader instead!

    I have to disagree about the Venerable upgrade for the deradnough - it was killed several times over but thanks to that Venerable re-roll it survived till the end! Furious Assault may have been a waste though, you're right there.

    The Lascannons are a personal preference, I know 4 MLs would be more efficient for points, but I couldn't stand have all the same weapons in my Devastators - I need some variety. They did help take out the vyper and war walker squad, and a few of the shots only beat the armour by 1 so they worked out well in the end!

    The tactical squads and other scouts performed prettymuch as expected, but it wasn't enough to stop me from being whupped.

    So to sumamrize lessons learnt:

    -Deepstrike is a very double-edged sword - especially if nearly half your points are doing it.
    -Dreads are great. I think I'll get another one, lascannons and power fist I think...
    -Infiltrating can backfire horribly if you don't get the first turn...

    Still I can't bash the list too much because it was more down to bad luck that anything. There goes my unbeaten record! (

  5. #4
    Always Fabulous NiteRabbit's Avatar
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    My comments in red.

    Quote Originally Posted by chrispcarter View Post
    Thanks for the tips NiteRabbit, unfortunately it was too late to save me from a sound thrashing at the hands of the eldar.

    My opponent got the first turn and between his war walkers, pathfinders and dire avengers promptly wiped out the Veterans and the aquad of scouts with the Heavy bolter in (even though they all had 4+ inv saves). I hate scatter lasers. Then his Vyper blew the launcher off my Whirlwind (it was hull down, best cover I had in my deployment zone) so the storm bolter on it was the only thing that did anuything!

    Unlucky! Well, ideally, you want the Whirlwind to be out of sight so there's not much point in having a Storm Bolter on it if you can't see anything to shoot at.

    The Uber-Terminator Command Squad backfired in a horrendous fashion - I'd hoped to use the infiltrating Veteran's teleport homer to bring them in to do some ownage - unfortunately I managed to failed 2 reserves rolls, so by the time they arrived the other half of my army was in tatters and the majority of the Eldar were still around to fire everything they had at them, and they all shuffled off the mortal coil - with the exception of Marneus Calgar, who was managed to dispatch a squads of both Fire Dragons and Striking Scorpions w/ Exarchs on his own, I like his style heh. Needless to say though, Deep Strike is no longer in my good books anymore! I could have dropped the Veterans and Scouts that couldn't even survive to my first turn and buy a Crusader instead!

    Well, to be fair, relying on a single Teleport Homer to bring in your Command Squad from above is generally a bad idea, as is including only one or two infiltrater units without any support whatsoever. They get caught out in the open and die without accomplishing much. Only include infiltrating units in small numbers as an expendable unit to push back enemy infiltrators from your line. Sadly, Marines can't pull this off convincingly in the same way that Kroot can.

    The other problem is that Marneus is a close combat monster and deep striking anything meant for close combat is not a smart idea, in my opinion. Yes, you would've been better off with a Crusader, but then you have the problem of Brightlances, which will be able to bring it down in a very big way. This is where the points saved from the Chappy and Libby come in, if you truly desire to use Terminators.


    I have to disagree about the Venerable upgrade for the deradnough - it was killed several times over but thanks to that Venerable re-roll it survived till the end! Furious Assault may have been a waste though, you're right there.

    Point taken. I don't have much experience with Dreadnoughts, truth be told, but I guess it did help in the end.

    The Lascannons are a personal preference, I know 4 MLs would be more efficient for points, but I couldn't stand have all the same weapons in my Devastators - I need some variety. They did help take out the vyper and war walker squad, and a few of the shots only beat the armour by 1 so they worked out well in the end!

    This is understandable. I've been known to equip my Devvies with Plasma Cannons and Multi-Meltas on occasion...ah, infiltrating Multi-Meltas...

    The tactical squads and other scouts performed prettymuch as expected, but it wasn't enough to stop me from being whupped.

    So to sumamrize lessons learnt:

    -Deepstrike is a very double-edged sword - especially if nearly half your points are doing it.
    -Dreads are great. I think I'll get another one, lascannons and power fist I think...
    -Infiltrating can backfire horribly if you don't get the first turn...

    Still I can't bash the list too much because it was more down to bad luck that anything. There goes my unbeaten record! (

    Good lessons to learn. Try Lascannon and Missile Launcher on the Dreadnought and give it Tank Hunters. Better yet, give a Dreadnought army a try sometime, just for laughs! Techmarines double the fun, but are quite an investment so use them wisely

  6. #5
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    Just 1 comment...OKAY army list with no HUGE flaws...but really whirlwinds aren't worth it! Swap for a vindicator (str 10 ap2) with xtra armour and watch the squads you aim at disappear!

  7. #6
    Always Fabulous NiteRabbit's Avatar
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    While Vindicators are indeed a powerful weapon, they don't have the range to keep pace with a Space Marine army, whereas Whirlwinds are much more ideal as an artillery unit. They are fairly cheap and if an artillery piece gets attacked, it has pretty much failed in its duty anyway. I can understand the potential of a Vindicator and I suppose it was supposed to be a unit that could move up while firing its Demolisher Cannon, hence the Predator chasis, but in my experience it has never performed quite the way I want it to. Whirlwinds aren't great but they're the only viable artillery Marines have.

    Also, be careful of posting stats and rules for weapons on Librarium Online as this is a violation of GW copyright.

  8. #7
    Knight-Champion chrispcarter's Avatar
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    The major problem the whirlwind encountered was that I let my opponent set up most of the terrain and I didn't realise that there was no cover for it until it was too late. Needless to say that won't be happening again!

    Point well and truly taken about the terminators though, unless I'm playing apocalypse-sized battles I will be sticking to less point-sinky units.

    I think my next investments will be the cheesy 3 x Land Speeder Tornadoes with AC + HB and the 3 Multi-Melta Attack Bike Squadron, that and another dread, with Lascannons and Tank Hunters and the Venerable upgrade once more :-)

  9. #8
    Always Fabulous NiteRabbit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrispcarter View Post
    The major problem the whirlwind encountered was that I let my opponent set up most of the terrain and I didn't realise that there was no cover for it until it was too late. Needless to say that won't be happening again!

    Point well and truly taken about the terminators though, unless I'm playing apocalypse-sized battles I will be sticking to less point-sinky units.

    I think my next investments will be the cheesy 3 x Land Speeder Tornadoes with AC + HB and the 3 Multi-Melta Attack Bike Squadron, that and another dread, with Lascannons and Tank Hunters and the Venerable upgrade once more :-)
    There are many ways that people can set up terrain in a neutral fashion. If all else fails, try this: dice off. Winner gets the choice of who sets up terrain but the other player gets to choose table sides. Therefore, it's in the terrain-layer's interest to put the terrain in a fair and balanced fashion or at least try to trick you into thinking that one side is more beneficial. Then, if you want to get really chaotic, you can deep-strike the terrain (scatter it from its original location like the deep strike rule).

    Do not ever call those 3 Land Speeder Tornados cheesy because they're not. Remember, it's all fair play until it's used against you. Rather, it's a tried and true unit choice. If people get antsy about it then put them all in one unit rather than splitting them into separate squads and see if they can deal with it then. Then, there's the grey area between LSTs and Lascannon/Plasma Gun squads but that's a debate for another thread.

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