1000 point IG need help quick

[antique_nova]

what ==me== said. sometimes my brain freezes, if i have one , and the right words don't come out ^^.
thanks
antique_nova

[kgoreham]

Originally Posted by FatBoyNoSlim

you guys sure i should drop the sponsons?

ABSOLUTELY!!!

I dropped mine 8 months ago and have never looked back. Keeping a Russ moving doubles the in-game life of the tank and lets you adjust your position to get the best shot, take cover, or provide cover to something else. Keeping still to fire Heavy Bolters is one of the worst possible things you can do. Especially when you're about to get assaulted.

[counterwavecounter]

Originally Posted by FatBoyNoSlim

You guys sure I should drop the sponsons?

I like sponsons, they help mop up what the main cannon misses and they also insure your tank can still do something after suffering a weapon destroyed result. However, for secondary weapons I think the best load-out is 3 Heavy Bolters.

Don't listen to people that offer up the BS3 argument, it's a bad argument, because everything in the Guard army, (minus Veterans), has BS3. Even hitting at 50%, 9 Heavy Bolter rounds are going to be averaging 4-5 S5 AP4 hits per turn, that's an additional 20-25 hits over the course of a 5 turn game and definitely worth the 20 points.

[FatBoyNoSlim]

thanks for all your help. im gonna keep the sponsons because like counterwavecounter said there easily gonna earn there points back! also spreading your fire out is rubbish, so the extra squad doesnt appeal to me! i like to kill one target completely before moving on to the next!!!

thanks once again hope you can continue to help

[==Me==]

Originally Posted by counterwavecounter

Don't listen to people that offer up the BS3 argument, it's a bad argument, because everything in the Guard army, (minus Veterans), has BS3. Even hitting at 50%, 9 Heavy Bolter rounds are going to be averaging 4-5 S5 AP4 hits per turn, that's an additional 20-25 hits over the course of a 5 turn game and definitely worth the 20 points.

The guns that use BS3 have multiple shots but are still effective. Heavy Bolters aren't effective. They don't threaten armor or high T and don't put out enough fire to adequately put down infantry. If you sit still firing sponsons all game, you will get wrecked in assault. 9 HB shots does a fat lot of nothing to infantry in cover, vehicles, or MEQs. 9 shots, 4.5 hits, 3 wounds, 1 dead marine (1.5 dead Orks), or .25 destroyed AV10 vehicles. Wake ==Me== up when Russes get sponson autocannons.

Originally Posted by FatBoyNoSlim

thanks for all your help. im gonna keep the sponsons because like counterwavecounter said there easily gonna earn there points back! also spreading your fire out is rubbish, so the extra squad doesnt appeal to me! i like to kill one target completely before moving on to the next!!!

thanks once again hope you can continue to help

Spreading your fire is superior because you can choose which unit fires at which target every time. You can focus fire if necessary or split up, flexibility with no downside. Removes the problem of overkill.

[grotsnik]

1 big mistake most of you are making is: you already get a free HB with the russ so you pay 20 points for 6 extra shots, so you get only 3 hits average a turn, by sponsons. That standard HB has nothing to do with the discussion about sponsons.

[antique_nova]

Originally Posted by counterwavecounter

I like sponsons, they help mop up what the main cannon misses and they also insure your tank can still do something after suffering a weapon destroyed result. However, for secondary weapons I think the best load-out is 3 Heavy Bolters.

Don't listen to people that offer up the BS3 argument, it's a bad argument, because everything in the Guard army, (minus Veterans), has BS3. Even hitting at 50%, 9 Heavy Bolter rounds are going to be averaging 4-5 S5 AP4 hits per turn, that's an additional 20-25 hits over the course of a 5 turn game and definitely worth the 20 points.

you might wanna re-think your words conscript. your hear to help others not shove others out. ( aggressive talk, but probably necessary )
thanks
antique_nova

[kgoreham]

Originally Posted by grotsnik

1 big mistake most of you are making is: you already get a free HB with the russ so you pay 20 points for 6 extra shots, so you get only 3 hits average a turn, by sponsons. That standard HB has nothing to do with the discussion about sponsons.

And he'll only get 6-9 hits with those sponsons, total, over 2-3 turns until his enemy closes into assault range and pops the tank with auto-hits because the tank stayed still. And the shots he does get will be compromised by the enemy's ability to move and adapt to cover.

So to all you sponson lovers: You're going to kill 1, maybe 2 extra marines with your sponsons. Is it really worth all the things you give up? My sponsonless Russes, on the other hand, typically survive for the entire game because they move around and adapt to the battlefield. That's 2 extra turns of firing the battle cannon, which means 5-10 more dead marines than a Pillbox Russ.

[antique_nova]

Originally Posted by kgoreham

And he'll only get 6-9 hits with those sponsons, total, over 2-3 turns until his enemy closes into assault range and pops the tank with auto-hits because the tank stayed still. And the shots he does get will be compromised by the enemy's ability to move and adapt to cover.

So to all you sponson lovers: You're going to kill 1, maybe 2 extra marines with your sponsons. Is it really worth all the things you give up? My sponsonless Russes, on the other hand, typically survive for the entire game because they move around and adapt to the battlefield. That's 2 extra turns of firing the battle cannon, which means 5-10 more dead marines than a Pillbox Russ.

that's what i like to see, opinions that don't brush any advice aside, but make people think about their options ^^. anyway, What Kgoreham says is true and a moving tank is one very useful tank ^^.
thanks
antique

[Helga]

Joining the discussion.

I can agree that, in my opinion, ability to move is much more valuable than 3 possible hits.
Here are some points you should think carefully about:

- you anyway are paying for the "lumbering behemoth" rule (it is part of the LR cost). This virtual points are wasted if you keep it still.
- Battle Cannon has 72 inches distance. HB have only 36. That is not so far for a not-moving tank. If you stay in your deployment zone all the game, your HB are very likely not to get in range with anything that is not moving forward.
- Battle Cannon is str8 AP3. HB is str5 AP4. That means, Battle Cannon targets marines or tanks, where your ~3 "free" shots will come to be 1/2 of a glance hit or less then 1 marine slain.
- you, as it was mentioned, risk that someone will come in CC and autohit is BAD. It is, really.
- you will have to move at least sometimes (your enemy will position his, say, Rhinos so that they will have cover. It makes all your shots 50% less effective). You will gain nothing from your sponsons those turns, only loss of points.