1500-2000 Mech WIP

[Hockeyman506]

Keep Autocannons on the Platoon and swap the meltas for grenade launchers, they compliment autocannons very well.

Once again, ditch extra armor on everything and maybe get a second griffon and have a lot of points to spare on top of that. You have 120 points tied up in extra armor, surely you can find better uses for those points.

[Lord Borak]

Looking good. A few thoughts though.

CCS. Give these guys some better guns. You've got 5pt guns on these BS4 boys and expensive Melta guns on the BS3 PCS. Do some swapping about and make the best use of those points.

Extra Armour. Is there a reason you've kitted everything out with this??? I count 7 Vehicles wih it. Thats a huge 105pts just on that upgrade. Think what else you could grab with those points.

Smoke Launchers on those Sentinels are a waste. They've got a scout move to get them into cover and they can Flank to keep out of trouble so they don;t need the Smoke. Plus lets face it, if anyone decides to shoot those tinfoil armoured walking bombs they're going to explode no matter what you do.

This list is lacking in transport killing. You can deal with Heavy stuff but anything annoying like skimmers or mass transports will give you pain. How about giving those Infantry Squads Autocannons or, with saved points from loosing the extra armour loose the griffon and grab 2 Hydras.

Lastly, Take ==ME==s advice.

[ChadMS]

Borak, Hockeyman and ==ME== are right. Autocannons are probably the best choice for infantry platoons. Most of the stuff trying to get close to your objectives will be Mechanised infantry, and the autocannons are well able to deal with transports. For special weapons, I wouldn't advise meltaguns. The autocannons should be enough to see off tanks, so I'd go for grenade launchers. These have both an anti-horde capacity and a moderate anti-vehicle capacity. Flamers could be possibility. ALthough it's not adviseable to take them with heavy weapons, they are a good deterant, all but space marines are vulnerable to a S4 template. Stay away from plasma though, they are too expensive for a guy with BS3

For the PCS, I'd go for an autocannon and grenade launchers again.

For Heavy support, consider Hydras. They are the same points as the Griffons and with points saved on Meltas, and if you leave out the OoTF you could squeeze two in. These are incredbily versatile. Autocannons are a good weapon to start with, but twin linked ones are even better! This tank can mow down hordes, and take on any vehicle short of a land raider. Plus you've got the auto-targeting system.

[Canew]

Ok, first off, thanks again for all the help!

Two things keep coming up: the extra armour and the autocannons.

First off, I know extra armour adds up, but I always thought it was a necessary upgrade, especially for the transports, which can't be stopped in their tracks no matter what. I can't help but fear if I leave it off anything else, I'm leaving them wide open. I realize I'm not an expert on this, so if I'm wrong, then I'm wrong, but can someone explain it to me?

Regarding the autocannons, I do see why they're so highly recommended. Just so no one thinks I'm a total idiot, that's one of the first weapons I thought of for every area you've recommended, from the sentinels to the infantry platoon to the hydra(s).

Trouble is, while I DO want a competitive army, I'm gonna get bored real fast building all those autocannons. Is there any other heavy weapon (even just for the PCS) I could/should use? Ditto for the grenade launchers. Again, I see where everyone's coming from, but there's got to be SOMETHING I can throw in there to mix things up and still be competitive.

Regarding the hydras, I do like them. The only thing is, if it's not a leman russ variant, I've got to (at least partially) scratch-build it, and a single griffon is easier than two hydras, especially if I'm using all my autocannon bits everywhere else. Don't get me wrong -- if you guys think the hydras are the best choice, I'll do it. Just looking for other equally viable alternatives.

One other question: Is it really not viable anymore to run LR tanks with sponsons? I fear one good "weapon destroyed" result will make my demolishers virtually useless right now.

Again, thanks much for all the help! This is very useful!

[==Me==]

Extra armor is a handy upgrade, but it just costs so much now. When it was 5 points, it was a no brainer pick. Nowadays, the price is just too steep. When you consider how rare stunning actually is (1/6 on glances or pens) it just doesn't end up to justify the price. Instead of the armor you can simply grab another tank or two. In the Guard, everything is expendable; paying for survivability is generally not a cost effective option. On essential vehicles like Land Raiders full of Terminators or Battlewagons it is worth it because they absolutely must keep rolling. On 1 Chimera out of 5, not so much.

Autocannons are the best generalist weapons, they pretty much do it all. Missile Launchers are a poor substitute and heavy bolters are too specialized (can't hurt armor). Lascannons can work well in infantry platoons thanks to orders. Normally lascannons are considered suboptimal because of their reduced destructive potential against armor and the prevalence of armor. However, with the Bring it Down order, you twin-link your lascannons and end up improving your chances against lighter armor. 2 infantry squads grouped together sharing a vox can get ordered with a re-roll and fire 2 TL lascannon shots down range for relatively cheap (especially considering you've got 20 scoring bodies as part of the deal). They can nail light armor and MCs quite reliably. They do require a CCS around to order them while autocannons are cheaper and more independent, but you end up with a more powerful weapons battery. Mortars are cheap, but not very killy. A bunch of Mortar HWS can be annoying considering how many blasts they can put out for cheap.

For special weapons, anything can work. GLs are cheap but unimpressive, plasma is expensive, specialized, and volatile, meltas are best mobile to offset their short range but can work well with BiD in stubborn foot blobs, and flamers are cheap and great for counter-attacking assaulters. I don't normally field special weapons unless I have points to burn or using a specific set up, Vets just do it better.

Sponsons are a whole other kettle of fish, I'll get to that later

[antique_nova]

Originally Posted by Canew

Ok, first off, thanks again for all the help!

Two things keep coming up: the extra armour and the autocannons.
yep ^^
First off, I know extra armour adds up, but I always thought it was a necessary upgrade, especially for the transports, which can't be stopped in their tracks no matter what. I can't help but fear if I leave it off anything else, I'm leaving them wide open. I realize I'm not an expert on this, so if I'm wrong, then I'm wrong, but can someone explain it to me?

extra armour is for transports than must be on the move most of the time and deliver close combat monstesr, it can work for shooty mobile squads. but it's most of a bling upgrade because we are guard. we want naked good transports not bling bling ones. leave that to the russes and their big guns ^^. with guard, transports that you want to be cost effective are always quantity over quality. this is all from experience, i am sure pricne of excess would agree on this, but i doubt that even he, like i, would updrade the russes. because they are fine as they are.

Summary:

• extra armour is preferably used for close combat armies that MUST be in cc as quick as possible. because it isn't a choice, it's a neccesity
• for shooty squads, they are an option? why? because they only rely on the transport for two things in this order. 1.protection 2. mobility.

Regarding the autocannons, I do see why they're so highly recommended. Just so no one thinks I'm a total idiot, that's one of the first weapons I thought of for every area you've recommended, from the sentinels to the infantry platoon to the hydra(s).

autocannons, leave them to infantry platoons. if you want outflanking tank killers vendettas are you choice and marbo ( but he deesptrikes, who cares when he is as accurate as prince of excess on his advice ^^ ) if you want to killer turbo boosters. leave it to the infantry squads again, sure they ignore cover saves, but the way to beat them is quantity over quality. because they rely on them to stop even the most powerful shots. so it makes sense to shoot lots of shots that ahs a fair chance of blowing it up. each weapon works with certain units, in some units they are overkill and in some, they are just unreliable.

Trouble is, while I DO want a competitive army, I'm gonna get bored real fast building all those autocannons. Is there any other heavy weapon (even just for the PCS) I could/should use? Ditto for the grenade launchers. Again, I see where everyone's coming from, but there's got to be SOMETHING I can throw in there to mix things up and still be competitive.

you don't need that many, if your gonna rely on autocannons to win a game, then you are bumed.

Regarding the hydras, I do like them. The only thing is, if it's not a leman russ variant, I've got to (at least partially) scratch-build it, and a single griffon is easier than two hydras, especially if I'm using all my autocannon bits everywhere else. Don't get me wrong -- if you guys think the hydras are the best choice, I'll do it. Just looking for other equally viable alternatives.

heck no they aren.t if you want anti-turbo boosting tanks. then vendettas, vendettas and vendettas are the way to go. autocannons are just backup and only ever back up for weapons that failed to blow that metal box up in that turn.

One other question: Is it really not viable anymore to run LR tanks with sponsons? I fear one good "weapon destroyed" result will make my demolishers virtually useless right now.

yes, but that's what the rest of your army is for. russes have always been firepower magnets. no matter what you give them. so it makes sense to not upgrade the things that will inevitably get destroyed for competitive reasons or to lift the spirit when they are loosing. you need to remember one thing, any unit can be destroyed if you opponent is mad enough, determinded enough to destroy it and disreguarding the number of men he will lose and in some cares want to just destroy it whether they win or lose. because it gives them a moral victory.

Again, thanks much for all the help! This is very useful!

no problem.
EDIT: damn ==me== sneaked in a comment while i was typing ^^.

thanks
antique_nova

[==Me==]

Wall'o'text part deux, Electric Boogaloo

Originally Posted by Canew

Regarding the hydras, I do like them. The only thing is, if it's not a leman russ variant, I've got to (at least partially) scratch-build it, and a single griffon is easier than two hydras, especially if I'm using all my autocannon bits everywhere else. Don't get me wrong -- if you guys think the hydras are the best choice, I'll do it. Just looking for other equally viable alternatives.

Hydras are fantastic for dishing out a ton of firepower cheaply. They can knock out any vehicle short of AV13 and can stick wounds on pretty much anything. They aren't too tricky to scratch up, just a Sentinel body with straws or the Aegis defense turret. Griffons are pure anti-infantry, but they're cheap and quite effective at it. If you want lots of medium S firepower at range, Hydras and Vendettas do it best, but infantry platoons and HWS can do quite well too. It all depends on what you need and what you have available.

One other question: Is it really not viable anymore to run LR tanks with sponsons? I fear one good "weapon destroyed" result will make my demolishers virtually useless right now.

Generally, sponsons are not as useful as they used to be. Even with lumbering behemoth, you can only fire one other weapon on the move. You generally want to keep moving since would-be assaults will automatically hit you if you stay still. If you protect your tanks (infantry bubble wrap works best) you can avoid it, but Demos have a relatively short range and should keep moving. Sponsons also don't always complement your tank's weaponry. 6 Heavy Bolter shots don't help you pop armor or kill Termies (they can actually help since your opponent can allocated multiple AP2 wounds to a single model) plus they're pretty ineffectual anyway. Multi-meltas seem good, but you have to sit still to use them to maximum effect and you're only BS3. Plasma Cannons are pricey and don't help pop armor. Heavy Flamers are a joke. The only tanks I'd put sponsons on are Executioners, LRBTs, and Punishers. Considering ==My== stance on LRBTs and Punishers, Execs are the only ones I'd worry about.

[Canew]

Ok, ok, you guys win, no extra armour, but their blood's on your hands!

I also agree with the hydras, especially with that dirt-cheap aegis line I could easily cannibalize.

I also gave the CCS the melta guns and gave the grenade launchers and autocannons to the boys. I liked ==ME=='s idea of twin-linked lascannons, but since the CCS isn't gonna hang out long enough to give the orders, that's out.

So here we go once again:

HQ:

CCS, 4x meltaguns, astropath - 120
Chimera: Multilaser, heavy flamer - 55

TOTAL HQ: 175

ELITES:

Marbo - 65

TOTAL ELITES: 65

TROOPS:

Infantry Platoon:

Command Squad, autocannon, 2x grenade launchers - 50
Infantry squad, autocannon, grenade launcher - 65
Infantry squad, autocannon, grenade launcher - 65

Veteran Squad, 3xmeltaguns - 100
Chimera: Multilaser, heavy flamer - 55

Veteran Squad, 3xmeltaguns - 100
Chimera: Multilaser, heavy flamer - 55

Veteran Squad, 3xmeltaguns - 100
Chimera: Multilaser, heavy flamer - 55

TOTAL TROOPS: 645

FAST ATTACK:

Scout Sentinel Squad x3, all with autocannon, searchlight - 123

Hellhound, hull heavy flamer, smoke launchers - 135

Bane Wolf, hull heavy flamer, smoke launchers - 135

TOTAL FAST ATTACK: 393

HEAVY SUPPORT:

Leman Russ Demolisher - 165

Leman Russ Demolisher - 165

Hydrax2 - 150

TOTAL HEAVY SUPPORT: 480

ARMY TOTAL: 1,758 points

So as you can see, I've got lots of points to work with (92 to be exact). What do you think I should do? Add another hydra? Add a commissar or two somewhere? Upgrades for existing units? What would you buy?

[==Me==]

Inquisitor + Mystics and a Chimera for the PCS to stick them in.

[Hockeyman506]

What ==He== said.

Pysker Battle Squad with a chimera in addition to that maybe? Cheap Plasma in the form of ISTs, giving them a chimera from an Infantry squad.