1500-2000 Mech WIP

[Canew]

Hi all:

This is my first attempt at Listhammer with the new IG codex (which I just bought--yay!). I've always loved the tanks, and am drooling over doing (someday) a desert-themed mech IG army. Initially, I wanted an armoured company list, but you all have convinced me to go this route instead.

So here's my not-yet-perfected list:

HQ:

CCS, Missile Launcher, two grenade launchers, Officer of the Fleet - 105
Chimera: Multilaser, heavy flamer, extra armour, dozer blade - 80

TOTAL HQ: 185

ELITES:

Marbo - 65

TOTAL ELITES: 65

TROOPS:

Veteran Squad, 3xmeltaguns - 100
Chimera: Multilaser, heavy flamer, extra armour, dozer blade - 80

Veteran Squad, 3xmeltaguns - 100
Chimera: Multilaser, heavy flamer, extra armour, dozer blade - 80

Veteran Squad, 3xmeltaguns - 100
Chimera: Multilaser, heavy flamer, extra armour, dozer blade - 80

Veteran Squad, 3xmeltaguns - 100
Chimera: Multilaser, heavy flamer, extra armour, dozer blade - 80

TOTAL TROOPS: 720

FAST ATTACK:

Armoured Sentinel Squad x3, all with missile launcher, searchlight, smoke launchers - 213

Bane Wolf, hull heavy flamer, dozer blade, extra armour, smoke launchers - 160

Bane Wolf, hull heavy flamer, dozer blade, extra armour, smoke launchers - 160

TOTAL FAST ATTACK: 533

HEAVY SUPPORT:

Leman Russ Demolisher, extra armour - 180

Leman Russ Demolisher, extra armour - 180

Medusa, extra armour, bastion-breacher shells - 155

TOTAL HEAVY SUPPORT: 515

ARMY TOTAL: 2018 points

Right now, It's too big. I want to max this at 2,000 points, and maybe be able to easily scale it down to, say, 1,850, 1,750 and 1,500.

At the moment, the strategies are pretty straightforward: The vets are the principal tank-busting units, The command squad will offer anti-infantry/anti-light vehicle support. The sentinels offer anti-infantry or anti-light vehicle, whichever is needed. I wanted the medusa as a backup against really tough vehicles. Marbo will offer a disruptive distraction. I struggled with whether to do Bane Wolves or Hellhounds, but decided I needed some anti-MEQ. The dems will offer pie plate support to the rest of the army. I gave the dozer blades to so many vehicles because if it's an all-mech army, I want to do all I can to make sure they keep moving.

I know I'm overspending and making poor choices somewhere. I'm not convinced I've made the right decision regarding the hellhounds, as my anti-horde seems a bit weak. I also don't have a clear purpose for either the CCS or the sentinels, which suggests I've built them out wrong. I know the Medusa is a bit overkill, but I'm a little nervous about leaving my chief anti-tank capabilities in the hands of four infantry squads. Seems a little too risky to me. I KNOW I don't want Inquisition units in this, as I want it to be a pure IG army. I also don't want flyers. Yes, I know, they rock, but they're pricey, both in points and cash, too much so for my blood.

Thoughts?

[Hockeyman506]

Hey welcome to the guard, the core of the list are similar to what I run. Before looking in depth at each unit, here is my biggest suggestion:

Drop extra armour on all the vehicles, it over priced for what little it does. IG (even vehicle) works on quantitiy, not quality. The only thing I'd consider keeping it on are the bane wolves. This saves you either 150 or 120 points depending on if you choose to keep EA on the banewolves.

Drop the dozer blades on everything as well, not sure how many points this saves you. Honestly doing the above two will net you at least 200 more points to spend on useful stuff.

Originally Posted by Canew

Hi all:

This is my first attempt at Listhammer with the new IG codex (which I just bought--yay!). I've always loved the tanks, and am drooling over doing (someday) a desert-themed mech IG army. Initially, I wanted an armoured company list, but you all have convinced me to go this route instead.

So here's my not-yet-perfected list:

Eh, I'd maybe go with 4 GLs here just so they are able to stay mobile. Maybe an autocannon instead of the ML, I'm not a big fan of missiles.

Okay

Honestly I think 3 meltasquads is sufficient at 1500 (even 200. One plasma veteran squad is nice and a cheap platoon with autocannons to hold a home objective and pop transports is also very viable.




[quote}Armoured Sentinel Squad x3, all with missile launcher, searchlight, smoke launchers - 213

No, armoured sentinels suck in my opinion. Missile launchers suck because BS3 means krak rounds will miss half the time and are unreliable against heavy armor. You have tanks and tons of heavy flamers for anti-horde. Leave them as scout sentinels with autocannons so you have the option of outflanking and pegging tanks in the side and rear armor.

Bane Wolf, hull heavy flamer, dozer blade, extra armour, smoke launchers - 160

Bane Wolf, hull heavy flamer, dozer blade, extra armour, smoke launchers - 160

Good, but you know these now cost almost as much as a demolisher? Drop all the suplerflous gear. They don't need dozers, EA is a possiblitly, though the smoke is good.


[quote]Leman Russ Demolisher, extra armour - 180

Leman Russ Demolisher, extra armour - 180

Medusa, extra armour, bastion-breacher shells - 155[quote]

No extra armor, too pricey. Keep heavy flamers on the demos. Bastion-breachers are not necessary, they are already good enough at handling AV13/14, don't sacrifice the big pie-plate. With the points saved you can upgrade this to a leman russ variant.


I know you don't want Inquisition, but an Inquisitor with a pair of mystics in a rhino or borrowed chimera would be a good addition.

[slobulous]

I agree with most everything Hockeyman has said in his post. Drop all the vehicle upgrades to save a big chunk of points and get more units. I am counting 248 points you could save by trimming all the fat. That could buy you something far more significant. I would also drop the armored sentinels and replace them with 3x regular sentinels with autocannons for 120 points that can outflank, saving you another 75.

I would also like to point out something.

Originally Posted by Canew

I know I'm overspending and making poor choices somewhere. I'm not convinced I've made the right decision regarding the hellhounds, as my anti-horde seems a bit weak. I also don't have a clear purpose for either the CCS or the sentinels, which suggests I've built them out wrong.

This statement shows that you are quite intelligent because you are rethinking and revising your decisions. When you know that you are making a mistake or a poor choice, it makes fixing that problem far easier. Since you know you are overspending, just look at your list. You will see the superfluous upgrades pop out at you. Just eliminate them and save points! Since you know you don't have a clear purpose for some of your units, point them in a specific direction by equipping them with more specialized gear. MLs and GLs are very generalist weapons, decent at several things, but not great at any one thing. This is why you feel they have no clear purpose, because their weapons have no clear purpose. Decide on what kinds of things you want them to handle, and gear them out accordingly. Specialization is one of the keys to effectiveness.

[Canew]

Originally Posted by slobulous

This statement shows that you are quite intelligent because you are rethinking and revising your decisions.

Thanks for the compliment!

Ok, based on the above advice, I'm gonna try this revision:

HQ:

CCS, 4x grenade launchers, Officer of the Fleet - 100
Chimera: Multilaser, heavy flamer, extra armour - 70

TOTAL HQ: 170

ELITES:

Marbo - 65

TOTAL ELITES: 65

TROOPS:

Veteran Squad, 3xmeltaguns - 100
Chimera: Multilaser, heavy flamer, extra armour - 70
Veteran Squad, 3xmeltaguns - 100
Chimera: Multilaser, heavy flamer, extra armour - 70

Veteran Squad, 3xmeltaguns - 100
Chimera: Multilaser, heavy flamer, extra armour - 70

Veteran Squad, 3xmeltaguns - 100
Chimera: Multilaser, heavy flamer, extra armour - 70

TOTAL TROOPS: 680

FAST ATTACK:

Scout Sentinel Squad x3, all with autocannon, searchlight, smoke launchers - 138

Bane Wolf, hull heavy flamer, extra armour, smoke launchers - 150

Bane Wolf, hull heavy flamer, extra armour, smoke launchers - 150

TOTAL FAST ATTACK: 438

HEAVY SUPPORT:

Leman Russ Demolisher, extra armour - 180

Leman Russ Demolisher, extra armour - 180

Medusa - 135

TOTAL HEAVY SUPPORT: 495

ARMY TOTAL: 1848 points

A good amount. I'm a little nervous about getting rid of ALL the upgrades, especially the extra armour on the chimerae, as they need to keep moving no matter what.

Still, this is somewhat better. The sentinels have more purpose, and I can use the CCS to supplement other anti-horde/template weapons.

[ChadMS]

Hi Canew.

I feel rather apprehensive about criticising the army list of a supermod but here goes (not much to criticise anyway).

You don't really need 4 veteran squads. I really would advise a cheap platoon with autocannons that can sit back and hold objectives. All your current troops choices are orientated towards rushing towards the enemy and destroying his tanks. But with 2 out of 3 missions being about taking and holding objectives this may become an issue. If you're worried about it not fitting in with your idea of a desert themed mech army, then just imagine them as being scouts, that range ahead of the main army.

Banewolves are good, but with demolishers, a medusa and all those meltas I wouldn't say you needed two. You could either take a hellhoud, for anti-horde, or a valkyrie, for transporting some veterans. This would also free up points from the chimera that you would save.

[==Me==]

ChadMS and Hockeyman pretty much hit everything I was going to say.

The Sents are kinda sucky with just BS3, I'd suggest Vendettas. They provide long range firepower and give you a scoring unit to sit back on your home objective without breaking theme (transport a Vet Squad or allied ISTs). 2 solo Vendettas and a single Bane Wolf works fine.

[Canew]

Originally Posted by ChadMS

Hi Canew.

I feel rather apprehensive about criticising the army list of a supermod but here goes (not much to criticise anyway).

Ok, first off, you don't know me well. I may be a Supermod, but that doesn't make me immune to criticism (be it here or anywhere else) so pick away. I'm a big boy. I can take it.

Originally Posted by ChadMS

You don't really need 4 veteran squads. I really would advise a cheap platoon with autocannons that can sit back and hold objectives. All your current troops choices are orientated towards rushing towards the enemy and destroying his tanks. But with 2 out of 3 missions being about taking and holding objectives this may become an issue. If you're worried about it not fitting in with your idea of a desert themed mech army, then just imagine them as being scouts, that range ahead of the main army.

Much as I hate the idea of a non-mech army, I'm forced to agree that one really solid, good-sized unit would be good in objective-based games. On average, I don't end up with more than, say, five objectives in a single game, and even then I find I only really need to hold two to compete (spend the rest of the game contesting/fighting over the others). On top of that, I can think of some fluffy modeling opportunities for an infantry platoon.

It's funny, but no matter how much people argue that 5th edition 40k is pushing the "all mech or bust" agenda, more and more I'm seeing that hybrid (half static/slow footsloggers, half high-speed mech) lists are, in the end, more competitive, and not just for the IG. Maybe vehicles really AREN'T the end-all-be-all of 5th edition 40k after all.

I'll figure out a way to replace one of the "chimelta" squads with an infantry platoon and re-work the list.

Originally Posted by ChadMS

Banewolves are good, but with demolishers, a medusa and all those meltas I wouldn't say you needed two. You could either take a hellhoud, for anti-horde, or a valkyrie, for transporting some veterans. This would also free up points from the chimera that you would save.

Not sure about the Vendetta, but I can see your hellhound point. I was really more concerned about anti-MEQ than anything, but swapping one for a hellhound won't hurt, and it costs the same, so...

Originally Posted by ==Me==

The Sents are kinda sucky with just BS3, I'd suggest Vendettas. They provide long range firepower and give you a scoring unit to sit back on your home objective without breaking theme (transport a Vet Squad or allied ISTs). 2 solo Vendettas and a single Bane Wolf works fine.

I struggled with the BS3 issue myself, but if I can get a shot at rear armour, they can pop transports pretty well. Might even go after heavy infantry in a pinch. They'll also serve as a bit of a distraction, I hope. Plus, I like the models, and I don't think they're TERRIBLE units.

*sigh* the Vendetta question again. I know this is the favorite new "toy" for the IG, but I'm just not a fan of them. Yes, I know, from a gameplay perspective this is a poor reason to avoid a fine workhorse unit, and I want a competitive list, but I want to have FUN with it, too. The flyers are too expensive for me, both in points and cash, whereas the chimerae, hellhounds and russes can all be done cheap or even scratch-built. When you're so broke you agonize over merely buying the codex (as I did), these things matter.

I'm also not a fan of the fluff that the Vendettas/Valkyries are supposed to be non-indigenous vehicles brought in as air support, and therefore don't "match" the rest of the army. Sure, I could paint them up as =I= units and transport ISTs, but I look at those as "fun" units to add on after the main army is built, not a part of my primary list itself. Heck, I don't even know how to do a flyer in a way that fits my fluff. I'd much rather get another flyer (like an Arvus Lighter, though that's not really any cheaper moneywise), and use it as a "counts as" model or something. The new big flyers look a little too bulky for my tastes. If there was an option with a slightly lower profile I'd jump at it.

Still, all good suggestions. I'll come back when I have time and re-vamp the list yet again.

[==Me==]

Sents with autocannons outflanking are about the only way I'd use them. Multiple shots negate the disadvantages of BS3, plus they're cheap and capable of taking pretty much anything down.

And if Vendettas aren't your fancy, look into Hydras. 1 extra shot, S7 AP4 vs S9 AP2, but 55 points cheaper and on a Chimera chassis. Plus, since you hate flyers so much, Hydras are anti-aircraft tanks too

[Canew]

Ok, second revision:

HQ:

CCS, 4x grenade launchers, Officer of the Fleet - 100
Chimera: Multilaser, heavy flamer, extra armour - 70

TOTAL HQ: 170

ELITES:

Marbo - 65

TOTAL ELITES: 65

TROOPS:

Infantry Platoon:

Command Squad, heavy bolter, 2xmeltaguns - 60
Infantry squad, heavy bolter, meltagun - 60
Infantry squad, heavy bolter, meltagun - 60

Veteran Squad, 3xmeltaguns - 100
Chimera: Multilaser, heavy flamer, extra armour - 70

Veteran Squad, 3xmeltaguns - 100
Chimera: Multilaser, heavy flamer, extra armour - 70

Veteran Squad, 3xmeltaguns - 100
Chimera: Multilaser, heavy flamer, extra armour - 70

TOTAL TROOPS: 710

FAST ATTACK:

Scout Sentinel Squad x3, all with autocannon, searchlight, smoke launchers - 138

Hellhound, hull heavy flamer, extra armour, smoke launchers - 150

Bane Wolf, hull heavy flamer, extra armour, smoke launchers - 150

TOTAL FAST ATTACK: 438

HEAVY SUPPORT:

Leman Russ Demolisher, extra armour - 180

Leman Russ Demolisher, extra armour - 180

Griffon - 75

TOTAL HEAVY SUPPORT: 435

ARMY TOTAL: 1818 points

Lookit that! Saved 30 points even! That's assuming my math is right

Ok, I ditched a bane wolf in favor of a hellhound. I also ditched one of the "chimelta" squads, losing a vehicle and a scoring anti-tank unit, but I've gained a large objective holder.

I'm not at all sure I've equipped them properly. I wanted them to have something to handle tanks and/or infantry/hordes. The meltaguns are probably a little too much, but I want to deter tanks. I picture this squad camping out on something while the rest of my highly mobile force races off to do something else. These guys must be able to hold their own, potentially all alone, for several turns.

Finally, after studying the stats a little more closely, I realized that the medusa without the bastion-breacher shells is really just a poor man's demolisher, and another demolisher is precisely what I do NOT want. I was trying to put something else valuable into the heavy slot, as anyone who knows me knows I hate to spam anything too too heavily. Hence, the ordinance. I traded high strength for good anti-horde with the griffon, but I'm tempted to get a manticore instead, pricey though it may be.

Remaining questions:

1) Is there a better way to kit out the infantry platoon to handle all manner of threats?
2) is there a better heavy support slot that is not a demolisher?
3) I would prefer a list at least 1,850 points so it can (someday) compete in local tournaments. What can I do with the remaining 30 points?

[==Me==]

Autocannons work fine for platoons, they can threaten anything short of AV14 with a good number of high S shots at good range.

I'd also advise against Fleet Officers, since they help reserve armies come in more reliably and give you less time to react to them. An Astropath would be better so you can go into reserves if necessary and come on more reliably.