Best Line Squad Special and Heavy weapon Combo

[WraithGuardian]

I am going to say this, and I know this will definitely not sit well with many people. But, I strongly dislike autocannons. I believe they just arent as good in their role as they are supposed to be. The only possible reason I can imagine for a player to focus on auto cannons, is when facing a lot of skimmers like dark eldar and heavy jetbike lists like normal eldar. Other than that
I think HBs and lascannons/missile launchers can do the job a lot better for a simple reason is that they are meant for one role, and one role only.

When taking lascannons, one obviously wont be shooting pathetic T3 things. The primary focus will be 2+ infantry and vehicles, same thing as missile launcher that is a nightmare for any SM player. HBs are the best againt infantry of any kind, giving 3 shots and wounding most opponents on a 2+ since the average toughness of 40k universe is 3. On the other hand autocannons are an in-betweener that do both things equaly, but neither well. This is especialy true for large events when opponents are picked randomly, so if one has a ton of autocannons and the enemy is heavy on armor/infantry...well, chances of doing a lot of damage will be strongly reduced. So unless one is sure about who the opponent is, in large events I wouldnt even take autocannons for consideration.

[Diggums Hammer]

Originally Posted by WraithGuardian

I am going to say this, and I know this will definitely not sit well with many people. But, I strongly dislike autocannons. I believe they just arent as good in their role as they are supposed to be. The only possible reason I can imagine for a player to focus on auto cannons, is when facing a lot of skimmers like dark eldar and heavy jetbike lists like normal eldar. Other than that
I think HBs and lascannons/missile launchers can do the job a lot better for a simple reason is that they are meant for one role, and one role only.
So unless one is sure about who the opponent is, in large events I wouldnt even take autocannons for consideration.

I agree with your view on Autocannon effectiveness completely. I only like them in Fire-support squads of three Autocannons for taking out skimmers and transports. Autocannons lack the AP (Missle Launcher) or number of shots (Heavy Bolter) to be a good line weapon.

Your point on T3 being the average toughness may true in fluff, but as far as real life playing the MEQ (Marine Equivalent) statline is the one I prepare for.

Cheers, DH

[Willance]

I say Plasma and Heavy Bolter.

Plasma because they can kill MEQ armys and tanks, and the Heavy bolter because Guard have crappy BS.

[Zarahemna]

Is it really such a good idea to use both special and heavy weapons in the same squad? Unlike marines you can't split a guard squad... I like to use one or the other in a squad, it keeps the cost down too.

[KOS-MOS]

I would say missile launcher and plasma gun are the best combo for the points though i would never take this combo with all my infantry. The missile launcher is like a long range plasma gun that will not overheat and can also take out armoured targets. The frag shell isn't as good as the heavy bolter but its a lot better then a lascannon if you find your self fighting light infantry.

[kroxigor01]

Originally Posted by WraithGuardian

The only possible reason I can imagine for a player to focus on auto cannons, is when facing a lot of skimmers like dark eldar and heavy jetbike lists like normal eldar.

Tau, Eldar and Dark eldar skimmers as well as AV12 and under normal vehicles are the prey of the autocannon. Getting Auto cannons in line squads however is not a good idea (shooting line squads at tanks is a waste of special weapons and lasguns).

I think HBs and lascannons/missile launchers can do the job a lot better for a simple reason is that they are meant for one role, and one role only.

Autocannons have one role they excel at (light vehicle hunting) but have the added bonus of being OK against (but not as good as some of the other heavy weapons) monstrous creatures, MEQ and things with invunerable saves (bikes with turbo).

When taking lascannons, one obviously wont be shooting pathetic T3 things. The primary focus will be 2+ infantry and vehicles, same thing as missile launcher that is a nightmare for any SM player. HBs are the best againt infantry of any kind, giving 3 shots and wounding most opponents on a 2+ since the average toughness of 40k universe is 3. On the other hand autocannons are an in-betweener that do both things equaly, but neither well.

Autocannons are not trying to be great at killing AV13, TEQ or hordes (on a side note, autocannons have one advantage over heavy bolters: extra range), they kill AV12 and under tanks. This is their purpose. If you feel that your army does not need them then so be it.

This is especialy true for large events when opponents are picked randomly, so if one has a ton of autocannons and the enemy is heavy on armor/infantry...well, chances of doing a lot of damage will be strongly reduced. So unless one is sure about who the opponent is, in large events I wouldnt even take autocannons for consideration.

A player with no autocannons that comes up against a Tau Mechinized army (all Tau armies are mechinized) or a marine army with 6 dreadnoughts will struggle. An abundancy of any one heavy weapon type is always bad unless you are lucky enough to come against an opponent who fielded the units you had in mind while choosing you heavy weapon.

Originally Posted by Zarahemna

Is it really such a good idea to use both special and heavy weapons in the same squad? Unlike marines you can't split a guard squad... I like to use one or the other in a squad, it keeps the cost down too.

YES. Guardmen are not marines, lasguns suck (but should still be. Heavy weapons and special weapons are the things that do damage in a guard army. Special and Heavy weapons should however be paired in combos with similair ranges and effective targets to ensure maximum damage, that is what this thread is about: which combo is the best?

[Zarahemna]

Eh?

I think there is a big difference between all of the heavy and special weapons. The flamer is a template, so that is out, The meltagun has a a very short effective range and is an assault weapon so that's out too. The grenade launcher is flexible but is an assault weapon so that would be wasted with a heavy weapon, and then there is the plasma gun. This is a heavy weapon in its own right with decent range and power, the fact that is has such a low AP adds to this but again it is a rapid fire weapon so you lose out by combining it with any of the heavy weapon options.

The only sensible combinations would include the plasma gun and even then you will be sacrificing this awesome weapons ability to kill TEQs on the move. After all you can't run away from an advancing opponent while shooting him with your heavy bolter...

I really feel that my suggestion that perhaps it should be worthwhile to carry one or the other isn't really that bad an idea.

[WraithGuardian]

Originally Posted by kroxigor01

A player with no autocannons that comes up against a Tau Mechinized army (all Tau armies are mechinized) or a marine army with 6 dreadnoughts will struggle. An abundancy of any one heavy weapon type is always bad unless you are lucky enough to come against an opponent who fielded the units you had in mind while choosing you heavy weapon.

Well, there is no person playing guard who takes one type of heavy weapon. There is always something against infantry and something against vehicles. During big events, a smart player wont be making a list just in case he will face skimmers of various armies. He will will make a list to counter everything and anything an opponent can throw at him.

Also autcoannons are Str7 which needs a 5+ to glance an Av12. At BS3 only one auto shot hits, and has only 1/3 chance of actualy glancing an Av12. So even against Av12, autocannons are extremely weak in comparison to lascannons that can grant much better odds. A space marine player with 6 dreds (Dont know why) will have no problem countering an Ig force heavy on autocannons simply because they wont pen 3+ armor and wont be strong enough to take down dreads efficiently.

Yes, autocannons have some advantages but when looking at the big picture its clear that one would be way better off with dependent and dedicated weapons like HBs and lascannons.

Personaly every Ig army in a large event thats heavy on autocannons, always performs extremely badly in the end. It always sets up a fun battle to observe, but in the end IG almost always looses. Its just something that I noticed from every single event that I have been to.

[Zarahemna]

I think that a person who likes Autocannon would use them against your avergae AV10 sort of target and as a longer range anti infantry weapon. Rolling 2's to wound is always a pleasure after seeing all of thos horrible 1's 2's and 3's when you were rolling to hit...