Topic of the Week: Ratlings

[kevin vanrooyen]

That being said, a rats have a 1/3 chance of putting wounds on an enemy (regardless of toughness). and for 110 points, you can get 10. In a single shooting phase they will force ~3.33 armor saves on average.

It causes about 3.33 wounds on aveage, not armour saves. I think you forgot to include rending into your mathhammer.

Anyhow I often use ratlings, they never seem to make their points back but my enemies absolutely HATE ratlings and do everything in their power to kill them. Including not shooting lascannons at my tanks, including shooting their out of range heavy bolters that could tear up my infantry platoon, including deep striking units away from my gunline to try to fight the enemy proclamed "damn ******* midjets". It lets my gunline fire unmolested. Time for my happy dance.

[jh316]

Well, let's be honest. You mentioned instant death, but using ratlings on something vulnerable to instant death is highly inefficient, they're not meant for that. Why waste them on a T4 model which even heavy bolters have a better chance of wounding?

[BoxANT]

Ratlings are a viable elite choice (but for guards, our elite choices are all sub par).

The new sniper rules and their BS4 (and +1 cover) make Ratlings effective at their role. They put wounds on MCs and can actually punish hard targets (1/9 chance to rend). But they do go down *fast* to mass fire and like most snipers, draw more fire than they should. That and the models are crappy. Personally, I don't field them.

Rumor is that they are getting new models (and hopefully lower point cost and/or better rules).

[RecklessFable]

It causes about 3.33 wounds on aveage, not armour saves. I think you forgot to include rending into your mathhammer.

For completness:

With rending, the chance to kill per Ratling against
3+ save enemy no cover = 0.148 or 1.48 unsaved qounds per squad of 10
3+ save enemy in cover 0.120 or 1.20 unsaved qounds per squad of 10

Against enemies with Feel No Pain it drops to 1.02 (no cover) .74 (cover)

Lascannons:
3+ save enemy no cover = .4167 or 1.25 unsaved wounds per squad of 3
3+ save enemy in cover = .2083 or .625 unsaved wounds per squad of 3

Lascannons cause instant death in most enemies and ignore FNP.

[RexTalon]

Without regard to statistics what-so-ever, if I used ratlings in my army my dice would explode, taking my hands with them. Thereby ensuring I could never insult the God-Emperor in such a way again.

The Emperor hates abhumans.

In fact, I'm getting that put on a bumper sticker.

[stayscrunchyinmilk]

Why are people thinking you can take 11 man squads?

I used to take 3 or 10 man squads. 3 man speed bump / Infiltration Denier vs 10 man massed fire.

Nowerdays I don't bother. I took a lonf a 4 man squad to a tournament, and in 6 games the most usefull they were was charging a Orc Mob, so they all moved 6" towards the very dead ratlings, who duly got butchered and the massacre move was 3" back, resulting in a failed charge by my opponent.

They are resiliant, and a very cost efficient sniper rifle. However, the rest of your army can cover their job easily, and they're a doctrine.

if they weren't abhuman, I might consider taking them........however, currently the model sucks, and their special abilities aren't that great either, my biggest problem is that snipers cannot take off the model you want them to!!!

Vindicate Can. (And can even shoot into combat. sweet.) My little bit of pedantry for today, check.

Ratlings are arguably the best snipers in the game! I love the little guys but I think they like all snipers in 40k perform best in big units of 7+

You may want to look at The Eldar codex under Troop choices: Ranger / Pathfinder.
They Score, Rend on 5+'s, rend on to hit and to wound and add 2 to the cover saves.
Credit where it's due. Credit where it's due.

For completness:

With rending, the chance to kill per Ratling against
3+ save enemy no cover = 0.148 or 1.48 unsaved qounds per squad of 10
3+ save enemy in cover 0.120 or 1.20 unsaved qounds per squad of 10

Against enemies with Feel No Pain it drops to 1.02 (no cover) .74 (cover)

Lascannons:
3+ save enemy no cover = .4167 or 1.25 unsaved wounds per squad of 3
3+ save enemy in cover = .2083 or .625 unsaved wounds per squad of 3

Lascannons cause instant death in most enemies and ignore FNP.

FNP is ignored by high AP. Rending confers this. Lascannons don't cause a pinning test either. (Why are they being shot at infantry anyway?)

The Lascannons, although costing the same have 4 less squad members, don't have infiltrate or a cover save bonus, and become less effective alot more rapidly.

Without regard to statistics what-so-ever, if I used ratlings in my army my dice would explode, taking my hands with them. Thereby ensuring I could never insult the God-Emperor in such a way again.
The Emperor hates abhumans.
In fact, I'm getting that put on a bumper sticker.

I think the same would happen to me if i ever did Y'know, just a normal army, with standard paint job.

Next to the commando guard army, or undead guard army. Or the Pirate WFB Orcs. Or the Imperial Fist Marines (A banana yellow army counts as being extreme without more work OK?), Or maybe the Neon coloured Chaos Marines (Admittedly, more as i was being lazy and put washes on white primer as i just couldn't face painting another lot. I also felt disgusted that there'd be another unpainted force in my posession. My wife asked me how long it'd take to paint all my stuff at one point, with 6 hours per week It was approx 8 years at time of answer.)

Oh wait! I did do a normal army with normal paint job! I did a full dark angels company, with 5th company markings. Yeah, that ended well didn't it?

[RexTalon]

The Lascannons, although costing the same have 4 less squad members, don't have infiltrate or a cover save bonus, and become less effective alot more rapidly.

But the Lascannons can take 3 casualties with no loss of firepower beyond 24". The Snipers lose a sniper shot each time they take a casualty.

[CKO]

Why are we comparing lascannons with snipers?

Ratlings are better at taking out high toughness creatures than lascannons, I dont do mathhammer or theoryhammer all i know is that on the table hitting on 3s and forcing a save on 4s is better than 3 lascannon shots hitting on 4s and wounding on 2s or 3s they are going to get their inv save regardless of what caused the wound.

However I am the type of imperial guard player that thinks the more dice I get my opponent to roll during my turn the better.

[ForgedInTheFurnaceOfWar]

For the math hammer record-

Unsavable wounds, assuming no cover saves.

Ratlings VS Wraithlord: 2.0

Ratlings VS Carnefex 2+: 1.5 (Assuming No Invulnerable)

Ratlings VS Daemon Prince: 1.6

3x Lascannons VS Wraithlord: 1.0

3x Lascannons VS Carnefex 2+: 1.3 (Assuming No Invulnerable)

3x Lascannons Daemon Prince: 1.0

Honestly I think both are solid units. The Lascannons shine against Tanks, where snipers shine against MCs. Neither is effective anti infantry - for the points, but both are multi-role when required. Unlike a heavy bolter, which is always anti infantry, and nearly useless against everything else. Of course if you really want to give yourself a head ache you could take lots of auto cannons and never quite be sure of what you should be shooting at.