Imperial Guard: How to write a better list

[Ravendove]

Hello fellow infantry nuts and treadheads.

The Problem

Imperial Guard became a fairly popular and competitive army with the release of the current Codex. This attracts many new and experienced players alike who want to start a new army. The problem is that there are many classic mistakes that many people make when writing their army lists and collecting their models, which isn't helped by GW's focus on models which are perhaps not the best choices. I don't know about you, but I'm getting a little fed up of repeating the same things in every other post. So what I'm proposing is this...

The Solution

We pool together our knowledge, experience and thoughts on the Imperial Guard. We collect enough solid advice for a sticky topic in this forum to help new IG players understand the fundamentals of what makes this army tick, what works, what doesn't, what mistakes to avoid and finally; few optimised starter lists (750pt) that can be expanded.

Proposed sections of this tactica:

1. Army List Types
   Infantry, Mechanised, Hybrid, Aircav, Artillery. What are the fundamental parts of these list types, basic generic tactics, play style?
   
2. Common Mistakes
   Things that initially look like a good idea but are in fact not and should be avoided. We've all seen these. Super tooled up Command Squads, Leman Russ Punisher, etc.
   
3. Best of the Best
   Point for point, the most effective units, upgrades and combinations that one can fall back on in a pinch. Chimelta Vets, AC/GL Infantry Squads, etc.
   
4. Dirty Tricks
   Tricks and combos that aren't normally obvious. Allied Inquisitors, Grey Knights, Assassins, etc.
   
5. Example lists
   A handful of small, optimised beginner lists that can provide a template for expansion and customisation. With general tactics for each.

So the idea is that this thread is used to collect and discuss ideas for this tactica, then when it dies down or conclusions are reached then we can comb through it and compile the best bits into something resembling the above format. Then we can petition a mod to stick it and hopefully improve the efforts of fledgling IG Commanders everywhere.

Please keep posts on topic. This isn't the place to argue if a combination is 'broken' or not. I'm not trying to weed out flavourful and themed armies - not at all - but just to set some sort of standard that new players can refer to in order to develop an effective army, hopefully avoiding the common pitfalls along the way.

So, is this a good idea? How can we improve this? Shall we get it started?

[==Me==]

I like that plan. I'll post a little something when I get out of class.

[Seraphim_Guard]

Really good idea.

Couple of quick things before I head to class:

Common Mistakes
1. Storm Troopers: They sound awesome. Their guns are ap3. They have more armor! They are perfect, right? Uh, no, and this is a shame because those kasrkin models are just so purty. Storm Troopers are overpriced for t3 models, and their only use is deepstriking with 2 meltas and popping a tank. Unfortunately, there are units that do this better. Only reason to take storm troopers (and it is a valid one) is because the fluff is so cool you just can't resist.

2. Sniper Rifles: They are really bad. I know snipers sound awesome. As soon as I started thinking about making a list of IG i had a sniper ccs in mind. But they just plain aren't good. Most enemies where pinning could be useful will be immune to it, and it is hard to cause in the first place.

3. Ratlings: This is debateable, as they CAN be useful. However, even with infiltrate they are still horrible Ld and they have sniper rifles, which aren't all that hot (see above).

[Commissar_Dixon]

Hmm... Well, it was already mentioned but I can provide specifics.

Common Mistake #4 - "Uber Command Squads"
Sure, there are rules for giving your command squad carapace, and power fists, and refractor fields and tons of other things that make them look like they can run out and pimpslap that Bloodthirster. ... WRONG!
Your Command Squad has one use; stand in the back and give orders. To that end, only one thing is critical, and a few others are "meh".

a. Vox Caster (Debatable) I love my Vox-Network. Use them. Love them. That ability to reroll orders is just what you need with those Khorne Berzerkers are running pell mell towards your line and one of your line squads just failed their "FRFSRF" order.
b. Heavy Weapons Your Command Squad should be standing in the back, behind the gunline and providing orders. To that end, they do have BS 4 so give them... whatever your list needs as far as heavy weapons. You'll appreciate it later.
c. Advisors (Debatable) Depending upon your list, and your gaming enviroment (I come from a MEQ domiated group) take advisors. NOT ALL THREE AT ONCE mind you. But read them, know them, take the ones your list needs.
d. Regimental Standard (Debatable) Forget about the "+1 wound to determine winner" that's lame and Guard doesn't need it. The KEY ability is the re roll of Morale and Pinning Tests within a foot. So your line doesn't break and fall when it gets shot up by that charging Boyz Mob.

[ChadMS]

Brilliant idea Ravendove, I'd be happy to help with this. Heres a few of my first thoughts.

Dirty Tricks
Psyker Battle squads are one of the cheapest units in the Elites section (next to Ratlings). They are favoured largely for the 'Soulstorm' psychic power, as it has a large blast and an AP as low as 1. While they may seem vulnerable, with T3 and Sv 5+ they can take a chimera transport. With chimeras now having fire points, the squad can use 'Soulstorm' and 'Weaken Resolve' from the safety of a vehicle.

Best of the Best

Guardsman Marbo is probably the best choice in the elites section. For one thing he is very cheap. He carries a Demo charge, and with his special rule 'Hes behind you' he can arrive right next your opponents most valuable unit, and blow it to pieces. As he is so cheap you will hardly miss him when he dies, and the amount of damage a Demo charge in the right place can do is huge!

[Roland Durendal]

Originally Posted by Commissar_Dixon

Hmm... Well, it was already mentioned but I can provide specifics.

Common Mistake #4 - "Uber Command Squads"
Sure, there are rules for giving your command squad carapace, and power fists, and refractor fields and tons of other things that make them look like they can run out and pimpslap that Bloodthirster. ... WRONG!
Your Command Squad has one use; stand in the back and give orders. To that end, only one thing is critical, and a few others are "meh".

Must respectfully disagree with you on that last point. A CCS has multiple uses, sitting back is just one of them. I think a lot of people tend to get that narrow view of their use and think they need to be in cover at the rear to be effective. Given that they can take 3-4 Special Weapons and the cheap cost of transports nowadays, they make a very good AT/Anti MC unit, as well as a solid mobile support firebase.

Personally, since I play aircav and my whole army is extremely mobile, I need a HQ unit that will keep up with my guys. Granted I typically forget to use orders (I know right? one of our best assets and I forget to use it on a consistent basis), but the amount of firepower and sheer "Oh f#$!" capability it brings is enough for me. I have amazed opponents on numerous occasions at what I call the Guard Assault Command Squad o Doom. In my 2K list it consists of:

Straken
3X Melta
Officer of the Fleet
Astropath
Carapace
1X bodyguard
Medic
Krak

The krak I've been toying with dropping due to really a lack of use. Overall though it's a fairly nasty surprise to people who fall into the thinking "Oh it's guard, a bunch of t3, 5+ save wusses. Ignore them or shoot em a bit and they'll flee." And then I charge them. And show them the ridiculousness that is S4 I4 guardsmen who have basically a 4+/4+.

[Lia]

Command Squads : Can also be used as Special Weapons teams, mostly for mechanized armies, but still an exception to the "CCS are for orders."

Hull Weapon : If it's a moving vehicule and has a long/decent range primary the hull weapon should always (nearly) be a Heavy Flamer, this exclude static vehicles (Pill Box Chimeras & Hydras for example) other than ordnance barrage ones (basilisk and co) as those would benefit more from a heavy bolter. You can only fire one weapon if moving anyway. (Exception Leman Russes & Hell Hounds.)

Chimeras : Keep them cheap, no point doubling the price and pintle weapons are not worth the points.

Not so common mistake : Stay the hell away from Rough Riders SC, he will worsen an already kind of poor unit usefulness.

That's all for now.

[Marnepup]

Originally Posted by ChadMS

Dirty Tricks
Psyker Battle squads are one of the cheapest units in the Elites section (next to Ratlings). They are favoured largely for the 'Soulstorm' psychic power, as it has a large blast and an AP as low as 1. While they may seem vulnerable, with T3 and Sv 5+ they can take a chimera transport. With chimeras now having fire points, the squad can use 'Soulstorm' and 'Weaken Resolve' from the safety of a vehicle.

Meh. PBSs are high priority targets due to the horrible things they can do with soulstorm. Popping open a chimera to expose them to shooting is simple. If an enemy PBS has more than 2-3 models left after turn two, you're doing something wrong. Also, you may not run into it often, but beware the Hammer of Witches. My witch hunter inquisitor lady has that power, and it's an instant kill switch for the PBS.

Originally Posted by ChadMS

Best of the Best

Guardsman Marbo is probably the best choice in the elites section. For one thing he is very cheap. He carries a Demo charge, and with his special rule 'Hes behind you' he can arrive right next your opponents most valuable unit, and blow it to pieces. As he is so cheap you will hardly miss him when he dies, and the amount of damage a Demo charge in the right place can do is huge!

This guy's an animal! I did have a good laugh the one time I faced him, though. He lobbed that demo charge over my tank, landing it on top of his own unit of allied sisters on the other side... seven nuns, southern fried!!!! He really is fantastic for the points, though!

/edit/

I don't know if this has a common name on the forums, but I run a list consisting of mechanized infantry and russes. nine chimeras, six line squads with nothing but autocannons, three command squads with a pair of meltaguns each, and four barebones stock leman russes. That runs me 1600 points, I get to 1750 with a pair of griffons or 3-4 sentinels. But the soul of the list is the two mechanized infantry platoons and the platoon of tanks. Autocannons, multilasers, and heavy bolters galore hiding behind a solid line of AV12 with pie-plate-chuckers spaced out for maximum coverage. Spend 2-4 turns plastering the enemy with heavy weapons and battle cannons, then move the surviving chimeras at flank speed under the cover of smoke to secure objectives.

[slobulous]

Best of the Best

Hydra Flak Tanks: One of the most points-efficient units in the Codex. You get awesome twin-linked firepower with extreme range for only 75 points. Also, if there was ever a good vehicle to upgrade with a pintle heavy stubber, this is it. The stubber will also benefit from the auto-targetting special rule. For 85 points, this tank can put out 10 shots at 36 inches (72 for ACs). Take a full squadron for 255 points and put out 30 shots! That kind of firepower can shred a great many targets, from hordes to heavy infantry to light vehicles. If they die, its not such a big deal because of their cheap cost.

Vendettas full of Vets: Another great unit that is relatively cheap with great firepower. There are also several ways to deploy them. You can outflank, dropping off vets to cause havoc and start taking twin-linked lascannon shots at side armor. You can use Scouts to move 24 inches before the game starts and drop off vets in your opponent's face right off the bat, and then scoot back with the Vendetta while shooting. Or you can hang back in your deployment zone and just blast away, and then zoom around near the end of the game to claim objectives. I have been using this last tactic the most recently. The vets inside are equipped with triple flamers, so when it is time to go for objectives, I unload them and torch anything that might be claiming the objective that I want.

Chimelta Squads: A chimera with multi-laser/heavy flamer loadout, filled with a Vet squad with 3x melta guns. 155 points for a great unit that can handle any threat. I have started giving them Demolitions also, so one of the vets can throw out a strong pie plate if need be. Quite a nasty surprise for that Terminator squad that thought it could get up close, or anything similar.

Mounted CCS with special weapons: Very similar to Chimelta squads, though these get an extra special weapon and instead of doctrines, can take advisors and give orders. In my opinion, easily the best HQ the IG have.

Demolishers: Self-explanatory. The Leman Russ Demolisher has been in the IG codex for years and years, and has always been a solid viable choice, although can get a bit pricey if you take some of the stronger sponsons. Still cheaper than a Land Raider though. The strength of its armor and weapons is too solid to ignore. Tried and true.

Griffons or Colossi: IG have great options for long-range artillery, and I believe these 2 are the best. Griffons are very cheap and quite effective, being able to shoot indirectly at a nice range with a decent pie plate. If you want a stronger punch, nothing kills MEQ like the Colossus, even in cover. You pay quite a bit more, but the killing power makes up for it.

[antique_nova]

Here's abit of mien: more to come.

SWS in Vendettas
You need scoring units. that are over costly and can be used to come in the need of battle? look no further, a cheaper version of the vendettas full of vendettas. Say you have a gun line army or an annoying hiding unit like eldar rangers, space marine scouts. Even blast weapons have a hard time stopping them and a colossus is too expensive. However, arm a special weapons team with flamers in vendettas, with a free move you can toast whatever you wish. Failing that they can always stay in the vendetta as it pumps it's lascannons into tanks and mounstrous creatures alike.
Reaons for why they are better than valkyries full of vets.

• Cheaper option overall from flanking to free movement scams.
• This unit is ignored more often than it's bretheren tactic above, why? because it looks less effective and it costs less. Plus it is thought of as less vital to your plans than a vendettas full of veterans.

try looking at these tacticas. it might help.

http://www.librarium-online.com/foru...y-summary.html

the best!
http://www.librarium-online.com/foru...d-tactica.html

thanks
antique_nova