Are Power Weapons/Power Fists worth it for Platoon Commanders/Squad Sgts?

[Blackadder]

This is with the standard Guard codex.

Just curious really. I'm planning to do a Death Korps of Krieg Army (or an Elysian army) in the near future and one of my platoons is geared toward an assault role. Looking at the power weapons an power fist options, I'm just wondering whether or not they'd actually be worth their points considering the WS and S of your average Guardsman - if we take Marines as the standard enemy army that will be faced, since the vast majority of people do marines of some sort, then of the 2 attacks which Platoon COs and Squad Sgts get, 1 will hit, and against a MEQ T of 4, I'd have a 1/3 chance to wound... (this is with a power sword) at which point the MEQ would go down due to the lack of an armour save.

With a power fist the odds are slightly better (feel free to correct me if I'm getting my maths wrong) - with Str 6 needing a 2 to wound, giving me a 5/6 chance of wounding and killing...

I'm just wondering whether or not you think these points are worth it really... unfortunately DKoK models dont have power fists anywhere in their range, so they're out (I go for WYSIWYG and am a crap converter) so really Power Swords are the only option... I suppose it all comes down to whether I think it's worth paying an extra 10pts to make those 2/6 wounds automatically kill your average tactical marine type (which if it works I believe would automatically make up the points actually)...

What do you think?

P.S Oh a quick note, Elysians do have Power Fists in their range, so if I went for them the Power Fist option is back on, but for the moment I'm leaning much more to Death Korps, so I'm mainly looking at power swords rather than power fists

[Korona]

The advantage of the power sword over the fist is you still get the +1 attack from officer's laspistol, so you get 3 swings with a sgt and 4 with a company commander. With the fist you lose that bonus. 4 attacks with a power sword is clearly worse than 3 with a power fist, but when it's down to 3 with a sword vs 2 with a fist it's a closer call. Running the numbers it's about .5 wounds for the sword and .866 for the fist but the fist also costs 50% more so it's pretty close. Since veteran sgts can run power fists the small edge over the sword is enough for me to favour the fists (when I take power weapons at all)

I actually converted some DKoK to have power fists using the plastic Cadian PF arms. If you're feeling adventurous it's a pretty simple conversion although you need to cut the officer's arm and use pinning and greenstuff to make the joins work.


I think there's a big question mark over CC with guard in general. It's not their natural habitat so you'll be needing to do other things to make it a viable option.
I quite like charging in with my veterans, but that's because I take Straken and I take shotguns on my vet squads. If I need to wipe out a unit I'll disembark an appropriate amount of guardsmen and plow a lot of shots in first before charging in to clean up the mess. Power weapons at that point are nice but probably won't make or break the situation one way or the other. I would focus on the other parts of your list that will make the guardsmen viable in combat in the first place and just take whichever weapon you prefer the look of.

Having said that, there are some fun specialist roles for power fists that the power swords really can't compete with. I know a guy who runs an airborne list that takes a CCS with a power fist, 2x meltas and 2x flamers. They use their scout move to get behind the enemy lines and run amok causing chaos. The power fist is a very versatile weapon and a great insurance policy. They can flame an infantry squad then charge in to punch the survivors or they can blast a tank with meltas and charge the survivors, or if they fail to kill it with melta guns they can run up and punch it with the power fist. ST6 is great vs AV10, especially when it's immobilised.

[Intrepid]

Power weapons are essential for infantry blobs; less so for one-shot chargers. With MEQ opponents and Feel No Pain being so common, Guard just can't win attrition against most enemies without them. My 30-blobs regularly max out on power weapons and I never regret it.

Powerfists are much harder to do. My best advice is to bring them by adding powerfist Commies to your PCS. The officer gives orders until the enemy arrives, then the Commie takes over and counter-charges. The best part of this approach is that not many enemies will kill all six GEQs on my charge, so the powerfist swings twice and the enemy is reliably tarpitted for his next turn. The worst part is the unit doesn't work with my typical blob tactics. The PCS needs to make base contact and that can't happen after two dozen GEQs pile in around the enemy.

You might use a pf-Commie as an addition to al'Rahem's PCS, or a two-pf PCS to support Penal Legions or an Armored Sentinel squadron. Or, you might ignore powerfists and use Straken Himself.

[IG_Greg]

you can always run a priest with an evisceration in with a PCS with a Commissar and give your officer and the Commie power weapons and a platoon standard. you can get 8 power weapon attacks that will reroll misses and 3 power fist like attacks from the priest (and if you get charged or yo charge into a dreadnought you can still take it down with the 2D6 penetration).

[Non Marine Player]

Or even better keep the priest in the PCS behind the infantry squad so they can't charge anyone and then place him in the infantry squad and laugh as Guardsmen actually do damage (to a lesser extent). Even funnier would be if you used Creed's "For the honour of Cadia" order, or if they were withing 12" of Colonel Straken. This is obviously an idea for a more fun, fluffy list, but it can still do a surprising amount of damage =) Also a PF commie in the Infantry Blob, as they would be taking one anyway, seems a good idea to me.
NMP

[Intrepid]

(and if you get charged or you charge into a dreadnought you can still take it down with the 2D6 penetration).

Not likely, since the priest can be singled out and has bad initiative. He does have a certain viability with Straken, though. FC and a "Chaplain's reroll" will give you that elusive "I'm playing Blood Angels!" feeling...until half your men die in one assault phase, of course.

Hmm. Apocalypse game: infantry blobs with Sanguinary Priests? Sounds like a Fabius Bile thing, actually.

Also a PF commie in the Infantry Blob, as they would be taking one anyway

Blob commies aren't allowed fists.