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  1. #1
    Senior Member Deathula's Avatar
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    Started with no clue what Im doing PLEASE HELP!!!

    So I decided to pick up Guard VERY recently, and making them wretched traitors. I was going to do them mostly as a paint/modelling project but I would like to be able to play with them from time to time as well. While looking through the codex, I feel I'm at a complete loss. So much different than Ork,Necrons, or CSM.
    I would like to ask for anyone's help on what to put equip my guys with.
    As of right now I have a Chimera and 10 regular guardsmen, a Company comand squad (CCS?) And a Commisar with BP and PS. Again I just dont know what to equip them with so any help would be awesome.
    I'm going to be starting off small so I really dont know what direction Im going to take them in.


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    Senior Member Blackadder's Avatar
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    Well first things first you need to decide on a theme That, in my experience, is usually the best place to start when doing an army. Obviously you've mentioned traitor guard, so that's a cool idea, but first off let's try to get that more specific before we leap into army lists and models.

    Basically, what do you want your army to be past being traitors? - Guard are incredibly versatile because they can field several different builds:- All Infantry, All Mech, A Mix of Infantry and Mech, Artillery, air-cavalry, and of course tanks.

    That list is not every single build there is I'm sure but it was the ones I could think of. If you have a think about what you want your traitor guard to be then we can go from there

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    LO Zealot Korona's Avatar
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    The 6th edition rulebook is about to drop but assuming no mad surprises there, mechanised squads in Chimeras are typically a good base for your force.

    You can build out a foot section later or go for a fully mechanised list.
    Copy, Improve, Innovate

  5. #4
    Drill Sergeant Lord Borak's Avatar
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    Just to expand on what Blackadder has said...

    Infantry:
    The most common armament for these guys is the Autocannon and Grenade Launcher. They're cheap and str7 & 6 is pretty good for knocking out enemy transports. Avoid the expensive weapons like Plasma Guns as their low BS makes the upgrade not that worth while. Lascannons aren't such a bad choice if you intend for the CCS to sit around with them and issue 'Bring it down'. Generally though there are better ways to get Lascannons.

    Now, Thats not the only way you can arm them. You can, if you so wish, arm them for close quarter fire fights and assaults. Usually grabbing Power swords on Sergeants and a friendly commissar to stop them running away is good. Special weapons is kind of up to you but G-Launchers are always good. Melta Guns might be handy to knock out enemy vehices and walkers that might other wise give you some grief.

    Which ever you decide to take you have to option to 'combine' units, or as most people say 'blob squads', and this means more men benefit from a single order and you have more bodies protecting those valuable Special and Heavy weapons. Blobbing units can be a double edged sword at times so you'll have to make the decision on a game by game basis. The 'Assault' Platoon I'd always grab in 'units' of 20 Led by a commissar though.

    Mechanised Infantry:
    Now, most people will grab Veterans for this task as their ability to take 3 special weapons makes them perfect for the up close and personal role of capturing objectives. Not that you have to use Veterans of course. A PCS armed with 4 Special weapons can do the task very well whilst leaving the infantry squads to hold a home objective. What ever your choice keep the upgrades light. You should never really get out of your transport unless it's dead so don't worry about Carapace armour, Power weapons or so forth. Demolitions can be fun as anyone trying to assault your Chimera can take a Demolitions charge in face in your following turn.

    Tanks!!
    Seriously, we're spoilt for choice here. Now, the most important rule for picking things for a guard army is 'Cheap and cheerful'. So avoid unnecessary upgrades like hunter Killer Missiles, pintle weapons and all those sorts of things. Leman Russ's/Demolishers and so forth very rarely need any upgrades other than sponsons and even then you don't need them. The second most important rule of Guard is 'If you're gonna take one, take two or three'. Basically have some redundancy in your lists (this goes for everything, not just tanks). So if you loose a unit/tank your plans aren't completely buggered.

    There are a few tanks to avoid though. Vanquishers are a bit 'meh' as they only have 1 shot at BS3 which means you're only going to get 3 hit per game if you're firing every turn. Exterminators aren't that great considering you can take 2 Hydras for the same points. Although chucking Pask in one can turn the thing into a brutal transport killer.

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    Senior Member Intrepid's Avatar
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    For now, pick up one of the battle boxes, a second Chimera and a Leman Russ tank. (The standard Battle Cannon version will be perfectly fine!) That will give you the following list:

    Company Command Squad with Chimera

    Platoon
    Command Squad
    Two infantry squads combined together, with Commissar

    Veteran squad with Chimera

    Sentinel (any variant will work except heavy flamers)

    Leman Russ, hull lascannon recommended


    That'll give you plenty to experiment with before locking yourself into a particular theme. Best to proxy the weapon choices for now.
    "My tanks have names, my men have numbers." -Col. Edmund Grahvess, 23rd Kronecker Imperial Guard

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    Senior Member Deathula's Avatar
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    Are any of the special characters really worth it? I was reading on Harker and he sounds like an awesome modelling project.

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    Drill Sergeant Lord Borak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deathula View Post
    Are any of the special characters really worth it? I was reading on Harker and he sounds like an awesome modelling project.
    Some of them are but they really depend on the army you take. Or your army really needs to be built around them. Either Or. Straken and Creed work really well in infantry armies Although a List with Straken in is usually more aggressive (blobbed platoons with Commissars and a healthy amount of power weapons).

    Kell is a bit meh, so is Nork. Bastone is 'ok' but points spent on him might be best spent on another squad anyway. Harker is cool as he gives you an infiltrating Scoring unit with stealth. Give the unit 3 G-Launchers and you have a unit that can move and chuck out some dakka. Pask is pretty handy in Exterminators. Al'Rahem is a double edged sword sometimes as he HAS to out flank but outflanking scoring units is nice. Chenkov is cool but Conscripts are pants in my humble opinion.

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    here's my order of awesomeness for the special characters:

    1. Al Raheem. This little critter is what allows my infantry blob guard to win objectives games. Sometimes it would be preferable to have him on the battlefield from the start, but, well, you can't have everything. Consider him to be +30pts expensive of what it is, because you really should take an Astropath. No, i mean REALLY. His "Like the Wind!" order basically gives fleet to the blobs he's bringing in, just remember to fire only assault and pistols! Vote: 9/10

    2. Creed. Well this is the most badass of our generals. It's quite hard to use him properly, expecially if you plan to use his special "For the honor of cadia!" he can give scouts to a unit so i can be a surrogate for Al's capabilities. Extra useful if you have a lot of unts on the table (like at least 4 blobs or multiple HWTs or a combination of both). If you follow the HWTs route, you should really take Kell OR a Lord Commissar to babysit them (ld7 sucks for orders and for morale checks) Vote: 8/10

    3. Straken. This guy is a best buy for aggressive guard lists. He shines when there are a few large blobs on the table, which he can buff considerably. You have to forget the gunline approach, just leave a few infantry squads with large guns to sit on home obj. He's easier to use than Creed, but much less flexible . Straken = Assaulty guard. Kit his squad to maximize the body count (so get 2 bodyguards) and consider a company standard and a medipack. Vote 7.5/10

    4. Marbo. This guy is the ultimate definiton of "one shot wonder". Remember this guy can threat almost everything on the table, but don't expect for him to survive more than 1 turn after the appearance. He's also an easy KP for your opponent. Try to make him spawn in a cover zone to have some hopes to survive retailation! Vote 6.5/10

    And now we enter the "mostly fail" section of the leaderboard
    5.Kell. He's not bad per se (subtract 15pts because he has a company standard, 45 if you also often use bodyguards and ALREADY payed for creed), he's just only useful in a very limited spectrum of lists: Where you have many many standalone HWT, Kell's is at its best. Too bad that his effects are overtaken if you detach a Lord commissar to babysit the HWTs. Good pick if you have already maxed out the CCS and you can't take a LC, but meh otherwise. 6/10

    6. Pask. Well, he's quite good for Antitank-kitted russes which stands still (his bonus is on armor pen rolls, not on the gun's strength) so you want to put a lascannon and sponsons on his tank. Whichever the model, at the end you'll be sinking quite a lot of points on a single vehicle. The pask-exterminator is basically a psyfledread on av14, which is the only really worthwile setup. I'd like to try, only for the lulz of it, a demolisher with LC and multimelta sponsons and pask. It's an antitank monster, with s11 democannon, s9 multimeltas and s10 lascannons (against vehicles only) but it's quite short ranged. LOL.
    Remember that the Pask's bonus works also against eldar, because they drop the gun's strength always to s8, but pask adds 1 to the armor pen rolls(not the strength!), basically granting it always s9-equivalent. Vote: 6/10

    7. Harker, another badass. Too bad that he can only go with veterans, and it's quite too much expensive to be really worth it. Place him with another Heavy bolter vets, 3 Grenade launchers/snipers/plasmagunners and place them in a cover area with good LoS. Quite a lot of dakka! Vote 5.5/10

    8. Bastonne. Pay through the nose to detach a commander to a vet squad, only to "bring it down" with your suicide melta squad? nope, sorry. I'd better detach a real CCS to follow the vets, at least i can get 4 more bs4 specials. Vote 4/10

    9. Chenkov. His orders are a nice upgrade for a PCS, and i would consider him if i already have maxed out the CCSs and still need some rear-guard commanding presence (iirc, he can issue "get back in the fight"). His ability to spawn conscripts is quite bad, because you want to use it on maxed out conscripts (50 per 200 pts) + the "next wave" upgrade (another 75) + chenkov itself of course. This on paper can be awesome "LOL wut unending 50-strong blobs!" until you understand that you have crappy morale, no specials, poor reach (you restart from your table edge), orkish BS, and extra expensive. with all those points sinked, you can build another platoon with many special and heavies. Vote 3.5/10

    10. Nork deddog. EXTRA EXPENSIVE, useful maybe in a straken-buffed armylist. But you're looking around 300 pts for a guard unit of less than 10 bodies. Worth it? hmmm... 3/10

    11. Mogul Kamir. Nope, sorry. won't even waste time on him. 1/10
    I don't use Vendettas or Valks...if Guardsmen were meant to fly, the Emperor would have given them wings. (343rd Mordian)
    The battle for Hidaxes SubSector (Listwar)! 184th Cadian blog: 184th.blogspot.com

  10. #9
    Senior Member Intrepid's Avatar
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    Mechanized lists rarely use characters with the exceptions of Marbo, Pask and occasionally al'Rahem. It's the infantry-oriented lists that get the most benefit. Harker makes a fine modeling project but I've never heard of him or Bastonne changing a game's outcome.

    Creed is the hardest character to use well, requiring a very particular list. He's the only one I warn new generals to avoid.
    "My tanks have names, my men have numbers." -Col. Edmund Grahvess, 23rd Kronecker Imperial Guard

  11. #10
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    Whats so bad about Creed and what sort of list is it you would have with him?

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