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Thoughts on the new codex

8K views 69 replies 18 participants last post by  Marius the Possessed 
#1 ·
So the Imperial Guard, er, Astra Militarum have a new codex! Just wondering what people's first impressions might be as they get a chance to look/own it. I've just brushed through the rules and units, haven't looked through the fluff yet, but so far it seems largely the same with some tweaks.

My summary of my first impressions:
-probably the best Warlord Traits table yet. Almost every one is good for almost every battle, with only the Relentless one being situational (because sometimes your HQ doesn't have any Heavy or long-ranged weapons). 5/5
-a little disappointed that all the characters, with an exception for Yarrick and Nork Deddog, are the Cadian and Catachan ones. Mainly because I like using al'Rahem's Outflanking ability, and now the only way to get it is to roll it on the Warlord Traits. Otherwise, they're largely the same, but Creed has a better Tactical Genius rule (2 Warlord Trait rolls). 2/5
-I like the Relics. Granted, two of the five are pretty 'meh' (a fancy sword and a fancy bolt pistol), while the others are really good (always having Inspired Tactics, making your Warlord tougher to kill and causing Fear, and the third gives Preferred Enemy to all AM codex units within 6"). And except for the last one, they're all pretty damn cheap for Relics too. Others may not like them as much, but it allows my Warlord to bolster my Heavy Weapon Teams pretty effectively. 4/5
-the Regimental Advisors and other individual units (Psykers, Enginseers, Priests) have remained the same or been given a pretty huge buff. I can see Psykers with Divination and Priests featuring in almost every infantry blob, and tank heavy lists will love their Enginseers. 4/5
-there is a loss of a lot of artillery units, but on the other hand, the Basilisk is still there, the Deathstrike is majorly overpowered, and the Wyvern seems to cover a lot of anti-horde bases, so between it and the Basilisk, the bases are largely covered for killing infantry. 3/5
-Bullgyrns. Expensive, but I have to admit I like them, even if they are too expensive for most people. They have Hammer of Wrath with an option to re-roll the wounds for it, but also get the Very Bulky rule, so you can take a max of 4 in a Chimera or Valkyrie, and that's with no extra characters to buff them. Still, with the power mauls and brute shields they're S7, T5, 3 Wounds, 3 Attacks, Stubborn, with a 4+ regular save and a 5++ invulnerable. Combined with a Priest, you have one heck of a tough unit that can smash most things in their way. 3/5
-Sentinels. The rumours of Armoured Sentinels being removed was false, both Armoured and Scout versions are still in, just for cheaper. 3/5
-Devil Dogs. Hellhounds but with a blast template multi-melta. 4/5
-Veterans are the same. Was hoping they'd go up in points or be only able to have two specials weapons, but they actually went down in points a bit. 2/5

So overall, I'd say a 4/5 for this codex. Not a ton of new things or upheavals, mainly just tweaks here and there.
 
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#2 ·
Intial thoughts, I like the Codex. I like that you can make an "Armored Company" army with the tank commander and cheaper tanks. I also like that you can make an Elite army with the new scions and now cheaper vets. Love the new scion Platoon section.

Not a fan of the orgyns still, but im liking the new rules for ratlings.
 
#3 · (Edited)
Regimental Advisors are pure gold.

Priests have a low leadership so its about 55/45 if they are going to be able to get their Hymns off but they still provide Zealot and a plasma gun to the squad.

Enginseers really improve the fiction of Leman Russ squadrons, being able to give Machine Spirit gives semi-split fire abilities.

Primaris Psykers are amazing because Divination is just amazing.

Leman Russ Eradicators got so much better with their points drop. They were always under appreciated but were still worth it against orks and necrons. Now they are worth it against everything because their base cost is so cheap. Even with Multi-Melta Sponsons, Relic Plating and a Search light they are 6pts cheaper than a stock LRBT type.

Tank Commanders are cool but I actually feel they might be a little too vulnerable to certain enemies. Against Tau, Eldar or Marines they seem like a liability due to being easy lance and melta bait.

I still feel Deathstrikes are too good. They are by no means tournemnt good but they have the potential to decide missions like Emperor's Will and the Relic. They also screw over centuristars and bikestars.

Wyverns look situationally great and TAC worthless. Good thing TAC is dead.

I still feel the Elites section is a joke. Ogryns/Bullgryns are OK statwise IMO but take valuable points away from stuff the IG need. Same thing applies to the other Elites that are not Tempestus. Speaking of Tempestus, they are good but taking them as elities instead of a scoring detachment is a dumbass move if I have ever seen one.

Vehicle Equipment because amazing. Camo Netting is just holofields now. Relic plating is cheap and always worth taking if you have spare points dividable by 3, getting your transports and tanks better Deny the Witch going against Chaos Marines or Daemon is super useful. Fire Barrels are interesting, maybe good against Orks but not really anyone else.

I'm seriously considering getting an allies detachment but this late in the edition I'm waiting to see how 7th deals with allies. Also would definitely be using Dreamforge's Fallout's Enclave looking dudemans. Way too many Cadian armies in these parts already and GWs only other option is an army of horribly proportioned illiterate mutants. I'm surprised more Americans are not offended but I guess they would have to be literate to know Catachans are inspired by 1970s-80s America.
 
#4 · (Edited)
I've been out of 40k for a while (ok, I've played 2 games of 6th ED) but this Codex is actually looking pretty sweet. In the way that I'm actually looking to get back into 40k again!

Bad Bits
- Good bye Mr Griffon. I loved the Griffon and I'm sad to see it go... The Wyvern is a good replacement though!
- Good Bye Penal Legion. Colourful unit but, eh, not fussed.
- Valks/Vendettas loosing/dropping troop capacity. Not bothered about this as I never used them anyway. Price hike was big but needed.
- Taurox seems a bit pants to me. Am I missing something?

Good Bits
- Cheap as Chips Commissars that are ICs. Good for Blob Squads!
- Cheap as Chips Conscripts. Seriously, these guys are cheap. Chuck a Priest in there and.....
- Sentinels going down in Price - Love me some sentinels. Especially armoured ones!
- Russes going down in price. Eradicators/Exterminators are cheap as hell
- All Leman Russes are now AV13 to the side!!!!! Considering the price drop, that ain't too shoddy!!
- Strakken.... On the charge he can chuck out 3 Attacks at str10 AP2 (I think). Sure. why not.
- Norks Headbutt. Plain awesome. Take that Dreadnaught.
- Ogryns look like they're quite a nice unit now. Especially those Power Maul wielding nutters led by a Priest!
- Special Weapon squads can now take 3 Demo charges, pretty sure they couldn't before.
- Traits look cool, especially the Out Flank one.
- Fire on My command! - Ignore cover saves you say? Sure. Why not!
- Burning barrels (vehicle upgrade thing) - That's cool. Can just picture tank commanders chucking molotovs out of the top hatch onto assaulting troops!
 
#5 ·
- Taurox seems a bit pants to me. Am I missing something?
Unless you first thought when you see the Taurox entry is "I'm going to take AT LEAST 6" then they are not living up to their potential. Think of it as Imperial Venom Spam. For 50pts per model I can get a TL-AC and protect 10 dudes. Thats only 300pts for 6 in a 1500-1850pts list. It is not that they are good. It is that you can afford to take 6 and still have 2-4 Leman Russ or some Basilisks or a big detachment like a Knight or Tempestus. Target saturation is key in this edition, my marines list runs 2 Scouts with Land Speeder Storms with Multi-Meltas simply because they provide points effective target saturation. Not just that but they carry 5 MSU scouts who can grab and objective the turn after they come in from Outflank, armed with a Multi-Melta for very low points. Taurox is the same idea but even cheaper. 10 Guardsmen with just a Melta is 60pts, 65pts for Plasma. It is in the same tier of points effectiveness as the Taurox. Add both Relic Plating and a Searchlight to each of them for less than 5pts each and you got some serious passive bonuses, +1 to Deny the Witch and bonuses when Night Fighting can save a game for being decided on turn 3. Camo plating is priced reasonably and is basically holofields now. Combined with All Terrain special rule it makes it easy to keep these guys in terrain all the time with a superior save. Using these guys to carry and support scoring units is super effective. Through sheer numbers you can afford to sacrifices squads to die to ensure others survive without giving up any capacity of your army. You have 6-9 of the same unit, all score, all have autocannons, they can shoot melta and plasma out of the fire ports for cheap. command squads have room to fit up to 5 cheap regimental advisor's in them. For 150pts 3 advisor can be a Level 1 Divination Psyker. It's all about cost effective tactical redundancy, its so cost effective you can afford to sacrifices multiple squads to improve odds of victory very easily.
 
#6 ·
My book has yet to arrive, so not till at least Monday afternoon, but looking at the site, I noticed the lack of Rough Riders. Now, I have personally never liked Rough Riders, in concept or in practice, though that could easily just be my own shortcoming, but I was hoping that, rather than just dropping them, they MIGHT get replaced with bikes, or something. Sort of sad to see that IG/AM only has three FA options, now. Oh well. I'll figure out more of my likes and dislikes when the codex actually gets here.
 
#7 ·
Rough Riders are still in the book.

I really like the book

-Wyverns are awesome, think of em as cheap tl-thunderfire cannons
-gear for vets got a lot cheaper, now a squad of carapace armoured vets is 75pts, not too shabby
-primaris psykers/priests/commissars/better orders make it a great day to be an infantryman

The sad thing is that I see wyverns overshadowing some of the other old options, who wants a hellhound when for 5pts more you get 8 twin linked ignores cover shred templates? Same goes for the eradicator, for 10 more points you get a pair of wyverns.
 
#14 ·
Rough Riders are still in the book.

The sad thing is that I see wyverns overshadowing some of the other old options, who wants a hellhound when for 5pts more you get 8 twin linked ignores cover shred templates? Same goes for the eradicator, for 10 more points you get a pair of wyverns.
Wouldn't that be 4 templates? Each stormshard mortar is heavy 2, and you get 2 twin-linked stormshards per wyvern.
 
#9 ·
:(

Damn it, and here I was hoping. While it's almost purely a personal aesthetic issue, I've always hated those dumb, anachronistic, one-shot-wonder ponies. They don't blend in, and they are only good, if that, once. (This is all my opinion, made with little actual use of Rough Riders). If I could pick between WWII era German Harleys with Cadian riders (already wearing helmets, and everything) and twin-linked laspistols, or dumb horses that don't blend in with any non-Attilan army (with no horse-mounted HQ to lead them), bikes would win every time. RRs can't rip off Space Marine bikes and get a highly mobile heavy weapon side car, either.

Oh well, it doesn't HURT that they are still there, so I'll stop whining. Losing their character sort of sucks, but maybe they'll release some regiment e-databooks, and he'll come back, maybe even as an HQ. If someone can want the high speed maneuverability of White Scars, I could see the IG version also being popular.

Did ANY regimental rules make it in, the way that Space Marines did? Cadians are my favorite, so I have nothing to worry about, but it would seem weird to have the Vostryan, Tallarn, Catachan, and other models on the page for order if they are a waste of time, and honestly, as much as Blood Angels and Salamanders fight differently, so do Cadians and Elysians, or Catachan and Kreig. Betting they didn't, though, even with the extra legal wrangling/new name insertion time.
 
#10 ·
mental rules make it in, the way that Space Marines did? Cadians are my favorite, so I have nothing to worry about, but it would seem weird to have the Vostryan, Tallarn, Catachan, and other models on the page for order if they are a waste of time, and honestly, as much as Blood Angels and Salamanders fight differently, so do Cadians and Elysians, or Catachan and Kreig. Betting they didn't, though, even with the extra legal wrangling/new name insertion time.
Absolutely no Regimental customization. Every one is the same sans equipment choices on the part of the player.
 
#11 ·
There are several ways to make the different regiments. Essentially the regiments are the same barring their elite troops.
Obviously dkok and elysians have the forge world rules. A tanith force can be created with vets as troops converted ratlings etc. there are options for camo cloaks and sniper rifles are very cheap.
Mordians are essentially just the choices you take. Build the list in a certain way and constantly use first rank second rank and you are sorted.
As for the others vostroyans aren't any different rules wise tbh. Valhallans never had their own rules and catachans are likely to get an ebook supplement judging by the marine options so far. Until then straken is a go to choice.

Essentially have a read of the fluff and tailor your list to it. That's how you get the specialist regiments.

As far the book as a whole it just seems tidied up and more in line with current books. I would have preferred more fluff on regiments and variety in their uniforms but hey I have colouring pencils to try out ideas.

A
 
#12 ·
Yeah, no regimental stuff, except that each one gets a page in the model/painting area. But as Commissarlestat says, it's easy to represent.

-Cadians and Catachans have models, and Catachans would have more mortars and flamers.
-Vostroyans and Steel Legion are mechanised Veterans.
-Valhallans and Mordians are masses of Platoon infantry.
-Tallarn are tons of tanks.
-Tanith would have lots of Special Weapon Teams and camo gear.
etc etc etc
 
#13 ·
Yeah, no regimental stuff, except that each one gets a page in the model/painting area. But as Commissarlestat says, it's easy to represent.

and Catachans would have more mortars and flamers.
Hey there - quick thought about Catachans and mortars. While mortars are much more man-portable than most artillery in a jungle, they really don't work terribly well. When launching out of a jungle there's a nasty chance they'll detonate above you, and when coming down they're too likely to burst considerably further overhead than you'd like. I admit to not having read a lot of the fluff, but I did spend four years as a Marine infantryman and sniper, and IMHO Catachans would be much more likely to use direct-fire weapons, flamers or demo charges on their home turf. That being said, if they're not on their home turf or they have a nice HWS firebase to work out of in a jungle clearing then go for it!

As a bit of an aside, I really like taking a FW quad thud gun instead of a section of mortars. For 50 points you get artillery piece durability, and four mortar hits at S5 AP5 w/a -1 to pinning checks. Mine's scratch-built out of a multiple rocket pod from the Valk with a repurposed mortar tube as the support. With some terrain effects added around the model it looks good and is a lot cheaper than the FW figure.
 
#15 ·
I like the book overall; I was sad to see Marbo go and Harker get nerfed (even more). Marbo always out-performed for me, which is probably why they got rid of him...if it's too good to be true...! As for Harker, I got him and his squad finished not a week before the codex came out. What do you all think, is a vet squad with forward sentries worth it? I ran Harker's squad proxied in a few games and the ability to infiltrate them deep in the board, camoed up with two heavy weapons, two GLs and a flamer worked pretty well. Do you think they're still viable without Harker (who now seems way overpriced)? Can they be moved up without transport or would you all want them in some armor?

On a separate note, our airpower got some pretty pricy adjustments (probably warranted though). I used to run a Vendetta with a melta-vet squad, I'm now thinking of running them out of a Valk instead. Will any of you still be running the Vendetta?
 
#17 ·
I'm generally pleased with the Codex, not surprising since it's an update as much as a full revision. One thing has me worried, though, and that's the absence of outflank. Infantry-heavy Guard really can't be run without it, in my experience. The "shoot & run" idea for getting up the field works for Eldar because they all carry rending submachine guns, no heavy weapons and are naturally competent in close combat. Now I'm staring at the one Warlord trait that unlocks outflanking, trying hopelessly to figure out a way to guarantee it and wondering how I'll avoid the infamous bum rushes of old. Any ideas? If the "Scions" can be made scoring then a deepstrike platoon would work. I assume there'll be a sub-Codex for that? Eh, I can always tap my Marines for offense but I was really hoping to bring my Prison Guard back and I don't mean in Tauroxes, even if they do look like cellblocks on... wheels? Treads? What are they?

Son of the Empire said:
Can [a vet squad with forward sentries] be moved up without transport?
Not really. The new Forward! order has some potential here but that's about it. A transport could go flat-out on Turn 1, drop them off and head back, though.

The Wyvern feels tailor-made for mechanized lists. Tank-shock the enemy into a tight grouping then drop a twin-linked hammer on them.

kevin vanrooyen said:
who wants a hellhound when for 5pts more you get 4 twin linked ignores cover shred templates?
Improved AP and the strength for both instant death and harming vehicles comes to mind. I'm actually thinking about selling off some of my Russes and transitioning to a Hellhound theme. If I have to go mech on offense then I'll do it in style, and the Wyvern can't keep up with a multimelta. Plus, Sentinels are back! The AS needed that 25-point price break, although I'll probably return to Scouts just so I can get something into the enemy's backfield.

Divination is everywhere but the real winner for me is Bio- and Pyromancy. I imagine a psyker attached to an infantry squad in a Chimera. Biomancy has a couple powers that go well with a plasma gun and the other powers turn the Primaris into a challenge contender. Plus, he bumps up the squad's leadership. Doesn't seem a bad way to go mech. I looked at Pyromancy last edition but had too much fun with the basic lightning power. Now it looks like as much fun as artillery against dug-in targets. Where's my fine detail brush? I need to paint a Guardsman playing with matches. Or, maybe I can find a 28mm Joker mini. Would Reaper make that?

Still can't give orders to units indoors, but with a Divination psyker I guess it isn't necessary. Hmm, maybe I should transition to a psyker-Prison Guard regiment. The fluff is hard to imagine, though.

Why is Yarrick neither fearless nor stubborn? Why are Straken and Nork so incredibly expensive? I'm fine with losing Bastonne and Marbo but the remaining characters are pricey for what they do. None of them really change how the army is played.

Son of the Empire said:
Mine's scratch-built out of a multiple rocket pod from the Valk with a repurposed mortar tube as the support.
Nice kitbash. I should've though of that when I wanted to gin up a Whirlwind turret for a spare Rhino.
 
#18 ·
Eh, I can always tap my Marines for offense but I was really hoping to bring my Prison Guard back and I don't mean in Tauroxes, even if they do look like cellblocks on... wheels? Treads? What are they?


Not really. The new Forward! order has some potential here but that's about it. A transport could go flat-out on Turn 1, drop them off and head back, though.


Nice kitbash. I should've though of that when I wanted to gin up a Whirlwind turret for a spare Rhino.
Thanks for the thoughts and I agree about the Taurox; a half-track could have been cool, but this vehicle doesn't fit the guard look. Here's the modified quad gun.

 
#23 ·
I played in a local tournament yesterday and my opponent on the top table of the last game was Guard (old codex). My grey knights were winning but he sneaked a draw at the last moment. We put his list through the new codex after the game and he would have been 90 points over (2 vendettas, 2 manticore, 4 chimera and a CCS; minus the discount from 4 vet squads).

Overall I think the codex has kept virtually the same power level but as the example above shows you must redesign a list to get that power for the same points. I will still continue to use 1-3 vendettas but will drop the HB door gunners. Vets in chimeras stay about the same with the squad cheaper and the transport more expensive by the same amount. If you use mechanised vets then you only need 2 plasmas or meltas as you can't fire all 3 from the hatch now. Carapace armour looks a lot cheaper now for airborn vets but that means Valkyries now which are a joke with the hellstrikes but are reasonable with rocket pods.

I like the Idea of doing a 20 man guard army now. Buy 7 packs or forgeworld snipers and clip of the telescopic sights and convert in a few plasmas to make 2x10 vet units in chimeras. Then just max out on tanks with 2 tank commander squads as HQ, a hell hound or two and some Wyverns, Hydras and russ in heavy support.
 
#24 ·
Marius the Possessed said:
You mean the Militarum Tempestus codex that came out a week before the main release?
Kee-rikey, another fifty bucks? Codexes used to be a bargain, now they're my other army according to budget. Before I buy it, would a Tempestus ally be able to fully deepstrike or is the 50% on-table rule still applicable?

Rep to you, Lord Borak. I've got me a fun conversion project when those restock.
 
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#26 ·
I haven't followed 40K in a very long time, and haven't looked at the GW website in nearly as long.
Has anyone explained why they dropped the "Imperial Guard" name for "Astra Miliatarum" (which to me sounds like a crappy little 3door jeep wannabe) ?
 
#27 · (Edited)
Yep, copyright BS. They wanted to copyright their stuff, and "Imperial Guard" can't be copyrighted; it's a real thing, a Star Wars thing, and several other things, so GW can't claim the name as intellectual property. It is my opinion that after the third party fiasco with Nids, their Mycetic Spore transports, and court, they wanted to be able to better protect their stuff, so they changed the name to something that CAN be copyrighted. It is weird, but no more so than "Astartes have had Centurions for most of ten millennia", as of last year, or other such additions and retcons that are to be viewed, in classic 1984 fashion, as if they have always been that way, even though we know better.

So, as my book has yet to arrive (damn the mail service, sometimes), is Creed watered down? I've heard that one of the new Warlord powers is basically his Tac. Genius with a d3+1, or something, attached to it, and he might be more Calgar-lite, getting a toned down God of War (2 instead of 3). Since you have to roll for Warlord traits, as this is not a strategy game :sarcastic: that might mean that the big thing one takes non-combat Creed for is now a crap shoot, like psychic powers are and shouldn't be. I confess, the absence of my book deprives me from knowing the other new Warlord things and Orders, and I'm assuming he's still the biggest Order bubble, preferably the most orders-giving unit, so that's still good, so maybe I'm whining for nothing, but it seems a possibly significant change in an army that otherwise wasn't to change TOO much. Also hoping he has Preferred Enemy (Forces of Chaos), but I suspect that's way to much to expect, even for the preeminent Chaos-fighting Guard's hero unit.
 
#28 ·
Creed is nerfed almost to oblivion. Only one additional order, no improved order range, no guaranteed outflank or other special maneuvering (all barring the appropriate warlord trait), no special "bayonet charge" order and no cheaper. His one major advantage is an "always on" vox which makes him an excellent choice for HWS support. No need for Kell anymore. Curiously, the tank commander gives the same odds for outflanking that Creed does.

Orders themselves haven't changed much; same restrictions on ordering passengers, etc. There's a few new orders for splitfire, pinning and/or shoot & run, all PCS level which is nice. You'll see a lot of blobs with stacked buffs from orders, Divination and other advisors.
 
#29 · (Edited)
just as I realised with my old dex the advantage of using outflank for my infantry horde as well :/, and they remove the two ways of getting it for certain. It doesn't work as a warlord trait in my view purely because you can't plan for it in mind - if you have (the old) Creed or Al-Raheem, you can equip your platoons for the express purpose of popping in from the side, but now it's random you either have to not plan for it (in which case the platoon's equipment might not be suited for it), or equip them for it and hope it pops up... it's just silly in my view.
 
#31 · (Edited)
Holy crap Creed got nerfed!!! I'm not sure how much to say, what with GW probably not wanting the whole stat block out, but I noticed three differences that make me think "yeah, the Lord Castellan is overseeing this Crusade from his bunker", and no real advantages over the last book. Looking at the various Warlord Traits, it seems most of them are loosely covered there, but that's a random table, of course. It's a good thing some of the relics are cool, because now the vanilla CCS Officer looks potentially better than the Hero of Cadia. Oh well.
 
#34 ·
Page 67: "If the psychic power requires a target, you must nominate it at this point. Unless otherwise states, the Psyker must have line of sight to his target. This means that a Psyker embarked on a Transport can only target himself, his vehicle or another unit embarked on the same vehicle as the Psyker. Similarly, a Psyker outside a Transport cannot target a unit embarked within one." That being said, I'd assume that you could have them 'firing' out of one of the top hatch fire port.
 
#37 ·
Squads (Infantry, Platoon Command, etc) cost the same, however stuff like power weapons/fists, missile launchers, etc have gone up to Marine level. Commissars are cheap now, the same price as a power fist, and you can get one for every command squad (platoon or company level) you field. Plus the specialists (Primarus Psykers, Priests, etc) have been largely buffed and have gone down in price, and you can take 0-3 of each without using an HQ slot, which makes for all kinds of nasty combos when used in conjunction with Infantry Platoons.

As for the conversion, buy one box of Scions. Each comes with an ungodly amount of bits, including 18 heads (9 with berets, 9 with helmets), as well as a plethora of special weapons and cool pieces.
 
#39 ·
Thanks for the reply.

A quick note on the commissars - I presume if they can only be bought for command squads, they must have some kind of area effect yes? (say a ld bubble or stubborn or something) - it just seems like a very limited buff if all they'd do was execute someone for failing to get an order passed, or failing a morale check in a command squad when the real squad you want to pass those tests are the large blob squads which make up most guard infantry platoons...
 
#40 ·
If you use the Tempestus Scions codex (released the weak befor the AM codex).

They are troop choices and you can ally them to AM-guard as brotherhood allies. They are basicly the same unit entry as in the AM codex but can use their own (rather nice) orders. Also brotherhood allies to grey knights so in effect we ge the old inquisitorial storm troopers back.
 
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