Heavy Weapon Squad + Fire Support Squad

[ShadowcatX]

I know these squads are capable of laying down an impressive amount of fire, but with the high cost and low person count are these squads actually effective?

(I'm still kicking around the idea of an all infantry IG army so that's why I'm wondering.)

[Xethemez]

Hi ShadowcatX. Next time you start a thread, please use the search function to see if the topic has already been debated and post there. If you had, you might have realised that there have been 2 threads started on this topic in the space of a week. This saves us rehashing the same themes over and over, and also allows for a more in debth debate, rather than several small ones. :rolleyes:

http://www.librarium-online.com/foru...le-models.html
http://www.librarium-online.com/foru...rt-squads.html

[ShadowcatX]

Originally Posted by Xethemez

Hi ShadowcatX. Next time you start a thread, please use the search function to see if the topic has already been debated and post there. If you had, you might have realised that there have been 2 threads started on this topic in the space of a week. This saves us rehashing the same themes over and over, and also allows for a more in debth debate, rather than several small ones. :rolleyes:

http://www.librarium-online.com/foru...le-models.html
http://www.librarium-online.com/foru...rt-squads.html

Actually, the first one is a debate of which ones to build, something I'm not interested in, I have my own ideas about that, I'm just curious if they should be built. On the other thread, you're right I should have used the search function. Of course, as the thread doesn't contain the words "Heavy Weapon" or "Fire" Search would've been a little bit less useful to me. Thanks for the reference to the thread though.

And btw, just for a note, this is a forum about an army that is covered in a (I'll be generous here) 70 page book. If you don't rehash things from time to time, everything would've been covered long ago.

[Neferata]

Right, but the point is, it wouldn't have taken too much time to take a quick look through the recent threads to find what you were looking for.

I'm not trying to be a jerk, I'm guilty of these charges myself, but this time there was a rather lengthy discussion about this very topic that has been recieving new posts as recent as yesterday, thats all.

[IGFreely]

Sorry to disagree, fellas, but I think Shadowcat is totally in the clear with this thread. There is a very distinct question in here as he's looking to go all infantry. Of the two "redundant" threads, one's about modelling and the other quickly degenerated into that nonsense about MEq killing and how useless statistics are in statistical wargames (in addition to the usual nonsense about sharpshooters).

This question, on the other hand, asks for thoughts on heavy weapon deployment without the usual options (Basilisk, LR, other tank-like goodies).

My personal opinion is that pure infantry succeeds by putting an obscene number of wounds on the table. However, against certain enemies, this will present real problems as the most point efficient wounds you can buy are conscripts and line squads. This means you'll be unable to concentrate heavy fire and will waste shots every turn one way or the other. The best way around this is to group like weapons (meaning HB/GL in line squads and AT squads of LC/ML) so you don't waste shots. Unfortunately, this means your heavy weapons are expensive and vulnerable, which is counter to all-infantry goals. One compromise configuration at lower points (>150 is maxxed lascannon vet squads and maxxed grenadier troop choices (2x PG) and plasmagun line squads (with or without a heavy weapon). The LC vet squads have good wound coverage and BS while every line squad has a versatile weapon that can whack up to AV 13.

[Knape97]

Tell you what. Answer his questions, or don't post in his thread.

Leave the moderating to the Mods, thats what we hire em for after all.

[Xethemez]

Originally Posted by Knape97

Tell you what. Answer his questions, or don't post in his thread.

Leave the moderating to the Mods, thats what we hire em for after all.

Right, I've been told. I just felt this question (or at least questions with similar answers) had been answered in detail in previous posts. I felt like I would be saying more or less the same thing for the third time in a week.

Originally Posted by ShadowcatX

I know these squads are capable of laying down an impressive amount of fire, but with the high cost and low person count are these squads actually effective?

To answer your question ShadowcatX, I think these units are one of the best in the guard. It's true that with a low model redudnancy they can be very vulnerable to attack, however - in an infantry army, as long as you have a good balance between support heavy weapons and infantry heavy weapons, you should be fine.

If you are woried about them being wiped out, I think a good rule of thumb in an infantry army is to always have the same number of HWs mounted in your support squads as you do in your lines, that way they do not present as much of a target, and you can afford their loss.

Personaly I field a grenadiers list, in which case they can be an extremley useful unit, as Grenadiers tend to be a little slim in the HW depatment. I pack them with cameleoline and sharpshooters and use the low model count of the army to keep them in cover.

Hope this helps-

[Triumph Of Man]

Originally Posted by ShadowcatX

I know these squads are capable of laying down an impressive amount of fire, but with the high cost and low person count are these squads actually effective?

(I'm still kicking around the idea of an all infantry IG army so that's why I'm wondering.)

You bet they are! Lascannons are a ripper, and it's deadly fun (excuse the pun) to spew out 9 Heavy Bolter shots and maybe re-roll the ones if you've taken Sharpshooters.

The only one I wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole would be the mortars, they aren't very useful. For five points less you could buy a Griffon (AKA, super-non-forgeword-mortar).

[Xethemez]

Originally Posted by Triumph Of Man

The only one I wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole would be the mortars, they aren't very useful. For five points less you could buy a Griffon (AKA, super-non-forgeword-mortar).

Ugh, don't get me started on mortars!

I will almost always enter a game with a Heavy Bolter squad. I agree with Triumph, 9 shots at an effective BS3.5 is lovley! My next choice would have to be Lascannons or Autocannons (but I try to keep Lascannons in infantry squads where they have more redundnacy).

I wouldn't really take missile launchers either, I've never had a lot of success when I've fielded them in the past - but many people swear by them. They are certainly a relativley cheap anti-tank component at -30pts over a LC squad.

[Triumph Of Man]

Originally Posted by Xethemez

I wouldn't really take missile launchers either, I've never had a lot of success when I've fielded them in the past - but many people swear by them. They are certainly a relativley cheap anti-tank component at -30pts over a LC squad.

Not true.

Rockets support squads are only 15 points cheaper, not 30. Remember the lascannon doesn't get the 5 point GW price hike.