NEW GUARD CODEX (fake)

[flakdragon]

Originally Posted by Sokhar

"Hitman"--Flak, either act out your urges on the videogame of the same name or just buy a Vindicare Assassin. In the 40K universe one human with a sniper rifle doesn't mean jack.

You didn't have to be nasty about it, sorry I didn't know about the vindicare, you could just have said what omnissiah said and gotten the point across, with this, you just sound like your trying to be mean. Dunno why you had to nitpick at every single one.

I put up the idea so get some good comments, and to see what people thought, not to see my ideas destroyed in a statement made by someone obviously at a better place than me and with far more respect. All I wanted is to see what people thought constructively, as to fix it. Omnissiah did that, so I thank him very much for just giving some suggestions.

I had no idea of the vindicare once again, so don't get all over me about it.

I have a feeling I will get a bunch of neg rep for this post...

[darkreever]

So Sokhar, having any fun bashing members friendly idea's around? They aren't trying to go all out and make them legal ones, but most of them are cool idea's that would be fun to implement and several make sense. (The bike one for example, I could see cadians using that one over rough riders any day because it would fit in far more...)

For the hitman's sniper rifle, why not simply go with the rules for the one used by Mad Larkin? Wounding on a 4 is alright, but the second part of that rule is absolutely evil. (on a 5 or 6 his shot ignores the armour of cover save of the model hit. Then again this is a model with rules meant to be fighting non-MEQ armies anyway.)

[Damnation flakdragon, you just went up from 0 power to 3 power, didn't know that many points could do so much for anyone.]

[Sokhar]

Originally Posted by KOS-MOS

Good points as always Sokhar

Thank you sir. Don't mistake me having less respect for a couple of the ideas presented here for disrespect towards you.

Veteran Guard Commander - If strom trooper armys are so elite then there going to have there own commanders that are better then normal command squads. also puting 4 plasma guns in a unit with only 5 men in it is not overpowered as 1 wound = 1 less gun

Hey, I agree with you on some points. Grenadir/Kasrkin bodyguards are cool. I very much like the High Command Group entry and hope it becomes part of the standard Guard Codex. We need that sort of HQ option. Triumph nailed my point entirely though, when he mentioned deep striking. One wound might mean one less gun, but if these guys are allowed to deep strike they will melt that whole Marine Squad before they can ever be shot at. The game developers realized this when they put the Elysian list together. All of their Command Squads, from HQ to platoon Commands are only allowed one special weapon and no demo charges. Suicidal commanders doesn't make sense, and its just too powerful game-wise. I heartily recommend you try to find those High Command Group rules in White Dwarf, I think they'll accomplish what you want and more.

Commando Squad - these are there just to make the demo charges more usable

I floated the option of a 0-1 "Special Weapons Platoon" as an elites choice, that'd be a command squad and 1-3 Special Weapons Squads. But honestly, demo charges shouldn't be in abundance outside of Elysians. Demo charges can be unbalancing and the Elysians pay a cost for having that kind of firepower. In regular Guard lists, it'd be unbalancing, and I don't think the need for demo charges necessitates a new unit (beyond Special Weapons Squads as is).

Guardsmen Bikers - Who doent like bikes! (just saying there cool)
these are more of a moblie fire team, Rough Riders are for conter chargeing
they aslo have 1 more T and some rules to make them different

Bikes are cool, you'll get no arguement from me. I don't think they'll ever fit with the Guard beyond being nifty conversions, though. The only reason someone would go after that unit is for the heavy stubbers, if that. Keep in mind though that Rough Riders can carry lasguns, and the Xenos Riders doctrine I mentioned will get you that same +1 toughness as a bike would.

Tank hunter - i was thinking more of medium tank for the guard as the tanks that you mention
are far more powerful then the one i made up. the Leman Russ Vanquisher is a metla gun hit at long range and the Destroyer Tank Hunter is just a rail gun

We've already got weapons that are less efficient at killing tanks than the Vanquisher or Destroyer....they're called lascannons and missile launchers. The Guard already carries those in spades, so there's not much practical reason for such a tank. However, I DO like the idea of a medium tank. Its something I bounced around but never put too much work into, back when I was doing the Codex Revisions thread. Something built like on a Hellhound chasis, that might be 1-2 vehicles for a Heavy Support choice. 2-3 non-ordance weapons. Might provide an interesting alternatives to Lemans. Its not exactly what you said, but I'd be willing to sketch something out if you're interested.

Linebreaker Squad - there more of a close range unit then vets with there flamers, melta guns and demos. Aslo there ws4 and Ld 7 so theres somethink to set them apart

Really, this is already the domain of Special Weapons Squads and/or Vets. You could have 2 flamers/meltaguns and a demo charge in the former, or 3 flamers/meltas in the latter. Hardened Fighters will get them the improved WS, so its not really worth it to have a poor man's version of that squad with just less leadership. Its the situation you run into with most of these ideas is that with some conversion or creative doctrine use, you can get pretty much all of these units with the current Guard Codex and doctrines.

Originally Posted by Flakdragon

You didn't have to be nasty about it, sorry I didn't know about the vindicare, you could just have said what omnissiah said and gotten the point across, with this, you just sound like your trying to be mean. Dunno why you had to nitpick at every single one.

Was I snotty/nasty? Maybe. *shrugs* My biggest beef with your posting (beyond its sheer abundance and having to see 10 copies of Hannibal Lecter per thread) is that too often you're giving uninformed opinions. You ask simple questions of us, but then act like an authority to others. You might not have known about the Vindicare, but really what was the point of that unit besides powergaming? GW doesn't want snipers to dominate the tabletop. Even the "expert" jungle fighter snipers don't get more than a re-roll to wound, so its rather excessive for them to get 3+ to wound and then have AP2. Sorry bud, but you're not going to get very constructive criticism when the idea isn't really worth salvaging. There's already two published options for sniper units in the Guard. GW designed the sort of guy you're proposing, and he's the Vindicare. He's got more limits than your guy and you pay a premium for it. A cheaper version is power-gaming. Water down your concept and you get Deathworld Snipers. No real way to set it apart.

I have a feeling I will get a bunch of neg rep for this post...

Nope, not really. You even got a sympathy vote from a mod. His intervening or not, I wouldn't have negatively repped you for your post and I doubt anyone else would as well. I don't like your idea presented here and you're not one of my favorite people on the board, I'll be honest. But you're not trying to be my friend, and I'm not trying to be your enemy. I can disagree with your opinion but still maintain minimal respect towards you. Only reason I'd neg-rep you is if you were being painfully, exceedingly obnoxious and disrespectful (which you've never been, you're always very polite) or if I felt you were harming other members by giving flawed or uninformed opinions/advice. This is a creative endeavor, you've got nothing to fear here. I'm not persuing any kind of personal vendetta against 'ya, bud.

Originally Posted by Darkreever

So Sokhar, having any fun bashing members friendly idea's around?

Maybe. :green: Sometimes you just have to call a duck a duck. I differentiate between the person and the idea, though. If I rub someone the wrong way, it happens. To quote author I like to read on occasion "My bedside manner might suck, but I'm a hell of a brainsurgeon." I've earned my rep (both points and in general my reputation) around here the old fashioned way as was intended--by being helpful, posting useful ideas, leading and initiating discussions. Didn't get a handout from a mod to help, nor looked for one to intervene just because someone disagreed with my ideas and I was unable to adequately defend them. If people take my comments the wrong way, its on them. I don't make personal attacks, I just interject needed realism into some ideas, admittedly sometimes with less tact than was possible. I'm consistent at least.

[Stifflersthedog]

Hehe @ hitman. Although i'da thought him more like the calladis assasin, like sneak up on em kinda guy.

Prehaps with all these Demo charge guy, there could be calladis type demo charge wealding model/models


e.g. 3 Guards with lasguns and a charge. with infitrate, then each turn roll say a 4+ not to be found out. Moving as normal otherwise, and either by choice or by failed save. they must imediatly use the charge . ( i.e. they fail a save, Whoops *toss and run*, or "there he is" *toss* ) . I know my "creation" is not very balanced, but thats just what i thought a commando/suicide squad would be.

[darkreever]

Originally Posted by Sokhar

I've earned my rep (both points and in general my reputation) around here the old fashioned way as was intended--by being helpful, posting useful ideas, leading and initiating discussions. Didn't get a handout from a mod to help, nor looked for one to intervene just because someone disagreed with my ideas and I was unable to adequately defend them. If people take my comments the wrong way, its on them. I don't make personal attacks, I just interject needed realism into some ideas, admittedly sometimes with less tact than was possible. I'm consistent at least.

Just to keep things straight and fair, the rep I gave was because I liked the idea and thought it was a good one. That is a fairly good reason to rep somoene right?

[and my intervention here was of my own choice, because I thought the way your post came across was insulting but not terribly so as to warrant any major action.]

[Commisarlestat]

Im liking the medium tank idea. I was thinking something like a down graded predator. I personally have made armoured cars to fill in this slot, i use them as autocannon chimeras at the moment which is useful if anyone doesnt want to go against non-codex stuff. (i know its forgeworld but thats completely ok down here). I was thinking of hitting the fast attack medium tank choice all in one by giving them a little armour boost and making them scout or something or even make variants for different slots. Im gona vdr several options and post them here. I also have the possibilty to make them withthe twin lascannon from the predator sprue but im undecided any ideas welcome!

A

EDIT: I'm going to open another thread for the armoured cars etc

[vorlon]

Originally Posted by Sokhar

As for other suggestions....

Penal Legion--Conscripts with creative modeling

Not sure that would do it really since conscripts have a low WS, BS.

I was thinking along the lines of soldiers/hive gangers being used as a "forlorn hope" - such individuals would be pretty handy in the close combat department I think -especially after time in the "pen"?

My thought was squads of 5 - 10, could include a Veteran Sergeant and up to 2 special weapons - flamers only tho' and count as flak vest 6+, but should automatically have hardened fighters (WS4).

So Catachan plastics would be ideal.

Human Bombs--Doubt we'll see those in the era of political correctness

Well that's the Tallarn conversion idea scuppered then! :w00t:


That said Forgeworld have a remote controlled demolition wehicle- would be ideal for Cityfight demolitions if you didn't fancy using repenting humans??

Thud Guns & Rapier Laser Destroyers--Imperial Armour has some options for artillery pieces, but I think this idea has the most potential out of anything mentioned here. Low-grade "field artillery" below the level of a Basilisk or Manticore is a decent idea I've had before. The problem lies in making the guns such that they are useful but don't step on other heavy weapons' toes. You figure out how to do that successfully, let me know.

Well both Thudds and Rapiers would have 2 or 3 crew and be self-propelled.

Probably require a doctrine point for 0-2 Thudds and similar for 0-2 Rapiers as part of the Command Platoon.

Maybe 0-3 limit for each when taken as part of a Heavy Weapons Platoon?

Thudds could use the large blast template but with some lower combination of ST & AP representing a hail of small HE/AP bomblets landing on a position - maybe ST7 AP3??
Armour 10 all round

Laser Destroyers - twin linked lascannons on a mobile mount with sophisticated targeter giving BS4
Armour 10 all round

??

[Matej]

Hi!

I would be happy with a 2 man squad, acting like spotters for the artillery.

With infiltrator skill, cammo suits, with lasguns, comm. equipment, and laser target designator, or something like this.

Maybe you can reroll a scatter dice once, or if you by special ammunititon (guided rockets), for the artillery pieces, dont even need to drop a scatter dice. It hit automacily, what is lighten by the target designator laser.

[vorlon]

Have you seen the scanner rules on the Forgeworld website?

Does something similar but remotely

[Roland Durendal]

Here's my old idea for a revamp of snipers...or at least a new option for snipers for the IG. I had some good input from Sokhar and Bulldogprez on this so this is the revised edition from way back when.

Sniper Teams:

0-1 Elite Choice
Can have 0-3 Sniper Teams
Sniper Team (Sniper and Spotter) = 35pts.

Sniper:
WS: 3
BS: 4
S: 3
T: 3
W: 1
I: 3
A: 2
Ld: 8

Spotter:
WS: 3
BS: 4
S: 3
T: 3
W: 1
I: 3
A: 1
Ld: 7

Weapons: Sniper has a sniper rifle and a laspistol. Spotter has a lasgun and Spotter's Scope
Both have an AS of 6+

Options: Spotter may take a vox for +5pts.

Special: Can infiltrate regardless of whether the scenario allows for it or not.

Both gain +1 to any cover save allowed.

Spotter's Scope allows the following 2 abilities:

Spotter Special Rule - So long as the Spotter is alive, they may choose to re-roll the sniper's to wound roll.

]"We Need Fire Support Sir!" - if spotter is alive and has a vox, and has line of sight (LOS) to an enemy target which an ordnance weapon also has LOS to (or a guess range weapon), he may call in for fire from that vehicle/weapon. If done, the ordance's/guess weapon's scatter roll may be re rolled. If the the scatter (original) is within 12" of the team, then they MUST take a Ld. test to see if they can redirect fire. NOTE: He can not use this ability the same turn he uses the Spotter's Rule. He may only use one a turn.

On all re-rolls that the spotter causes, the second result MUST be used, no matter the outcome.

NOTE: If a spotter uses one of his abilities, it counts as his firing a weapon. Therefore he cannot fire his weapon and use an ability in the same turn.


The only thing I have yet to work out is if the Spotter calls in fire on a vehicle, should the sniper have to target the vehicle as well....or could I make it that the Sniper and Spotter have an ability to target different things? Or rather if the spotter uses his Scope it allows him to target something different from the Sniper....any advice?