Welcome to Librarium Online!
Ok I have been a member of this fine forum for a few years now and the journey has not been smooth. I am happy to admit I have made plenty (and I mean plenty) of mistakes and I have a reputation amongst many of being difficult and outspoken. Now I fully acknowledge that this has been the case and I have made concerted efforts to change after warnings, advice etc from moderators. I have had mods help and constructively advise me on my behaviour and I think I have become a better person for this help and advice (no I don't think I have I KNOW I have).
However here is the thing I have also had the misfortune to be on the receiving end of what can only be described as unreasonable behaviour from various Mods on this forum. Now I am talking about behaviour that would definitely have been censored as flaming, trolling or just plain unacceptable from normal everyday members of this forum.
Just recently I was subjected to what basically was a veiled attack from a Mod on this forum and I was going to take it further and complain, but here is the thing, I have no faith that anything would be done about it so I have just left it This is a sad state of affairs but I just feel a fair and unbiased device for reporting Mod behaviour does not exist on this forum.
After all we are all subject to moderation by individuals that on the whole do a bloody good job (and they do, I am not just saying that) But the fact of the matter is that if someone sets themselves up to accept the responsibility to judge another's behaviour and potentially has the power to censure, punish, ban or admonish a member for not meeting said laid down standards of behaviour of the forum, then that person has a duty to behave impeccably and meet if not exceed the same standards of behaviour (in fact it behoves them to exceed said standards by virtue of setting themselves as judges of said behaviour).
After all if they judge then they have to be able to say that they know what is expected and they MUST conform rigidly to that same high standard.
Now I am going to put my head on the block and say that this is not the case with certain un-named members of the mod team and it is not the case by a long way. So I ask what exactly is the procedure for reporting a moderators abuse of his powers or reporting a Moderators non conformation to the rules set out in this forum? Because all I can see is we have to report it to someone higher, oh but that someone higher is a part of the moderator team, is this not what is called a conflict of interest.
So at the risk of making myself more unpopular than I already am with the Mod team I ask these simple questions:
(1) Has anyone else been the recipient of unacceptable behaviour from Mods?
(2) Does anyone else think that the present system for reporting abuse of Mod powers (is there one) is ineffectual and ineffective?
(3) Can anyone actually tell me what the system for reporting a Mod is?
(4) Who moderated the Mods?
As it stands I think the mods on this forum have way to much freedom to just do as they please, I think a double standard applies in that we as the everyday members of the forum are bound by expectations of standards of behaviour, yet these same standards do not seem to apply to the mods and this is unacceptable. The Mods should be setting the example and while the majority do so there is a definite minority that do not and I think they let the forum down.
What do you the members think should be done about this? I think that we should have a system whereby we can provide evidence of any unacceptable Mod behaviour and the Mods should be answerable for their actions. This system I feel does simply not exist a the moment.
Now I know I am going to take flack for this post(what's new he asks wistfully), mostly people saying I am not one to talk for my past actions and that is fine, however if I do need to answer then that is fine, my argument is this though. If I need to answer for unacceptable behaviour that does not meet the forum rules then do not the Mods judging me need to meet this same criteria and if they do not meet said standards then they should not be Mods and we should have some definite means of reporting and enforcing these standards of moderation is that unreasonable?
Just a point here, man thats a big block of text, most people won't read that lol. You should know that by now,
1) Yes, once or twice, but yeah,
2) It is kinda to be honest, I normally talk to another Mod, not Blackhat or Stoney, mostly Karmoon as he will tell them or do something about it.
3) Basically it normally is PM Blackhat or Stoney or try another mod preferably a super mod or higher, Karmoon, David etc
4) Blackhat and Stoney choose the mods, so I guess they do.
Maybe, a good idea would be set up a small section on the forum that is private for people to report stuff if they wish, and maybe a small team of members not mods, to help them, but the mods can still view all posts there?
First off, I've got to take care of some minor housekeeping - and that is moving this to the Feedback & Support forum. I am by no means trying to deprive you of your say, I just would rather keep the general hobby discussion forum for hobby discussions.
Second, you seem to have some resentment toward our team, and for that I am deeply sorry. I will say I agree with your points about moderators holding themselves to a higher standard of behavior - when I have observed lapses in the past, I have addressed them. Not wanting to preempt any further opinions expressed in this thread, I will shelve the defense of our team for the moment and instead answer your questions:Recieved, no.(1) Has anyone else been the recipient of unacceptable behaviour from Mods?Obviously I think the current system is effective, but I also think that people may be unaware of it, or unsure of how to use it. This brings us to...(2) Does anyone else think that the present system for reporting abuse of Mod powers (is there one) is ineffectual and ineffective?There is a chain of command, so to speak. Those of us who are Supervisors have taken on the additional task of monitoring and responding to concernjs and complaints regarding members of the mod team. We are here to help you with whatever we can, or to refer you to whomever can help you if we cannot. As always, ultimate authority resides with Blackhat, but he gives us all an ear when it comes to disputes.(3) Can anyone actually tell me what the system for reporting a Mod is?As I mentioned, we have a bit of a heirarchy: Moderator / Supermoderator / Supervisor / Admin. Our team is self-policing for the most part, though I freely welcome and give ear to member comments and occasional complaints.(4) Who moderated the Mods?
If you feel comfortable, Riki, please PM me with details regarding your issue. All I ask is that this thread be kept as constructive as possible regarding the issue presented.
EDIT: To respond to Pickle's post, potential mods are nominated, deliberated on, and chosen by the entire team. The majority of decisions we make involve some degree of team input. When it comes to issues of site maintenance and upgrade, Stoney and Blackhat are clearly in charge, but issues relating to the community in general are often decided on by the entire team.
As to the original topic- I've had no drama from a mod and I'm sure I can be reasonably abrasive at times. I have a fair amount of faith in the team but I'd also like to think that if I did want to have a grumble then I would be listened to.
No more NG spearmen, thanks! Now I need some pump-wagons!
2) I've never had to try it out, but from what I've seen it's not too bad.
3&4) Already been said.
As to your comment about the Mods having too much power, I've heard opinions that they don't do enough. Perhaps if you could give evidence, I'd be more convinced myself.This is more of a nit-picking detail, but that specific you used can be taken as quite incriminating.Recieved, no.At risk of sounding ignorant/uneducated, what do you mean by veiled attack? If I may ask.Just recently I was subjected to what basically was a veiled attack from a Mod on this forum
Cyric, are chat mdoerators also decided by the whole chat moderator team or is that just Blackhat and Stoney choosing? I think we need new mods appointed soon, as most of the time there isn't one around, or the ones that are, well they are totally useless as they aren't around. SOmetimes we get active mods depends really.
EDIT - Also, can we get an active mod actually in the Marine forums, as well I report a few threads to mods regularly, and well, I haven't seen a mod there for awhile.
1) No. Though I've thought some might have been perhaps too strict (i.e. perhaps nipping something in the bud a little too quickly, don't recall any specifics but I'm sure you can imagine), I've always thought the mods here do an admirable job. I'm interested in what this is all about, but I understand if you don't want to share.
2) From the sounds of things, there's enough people in charge that I trust that I can feel assured that I can get ahold of someone if I need to.
3) I can now.
4) See above.
How can a complaint about a Mod be discussed fairly by the Mod team (no matter who)? It is like letting the defence in trial decide if the person they are defending (and who is paying them) is guilty. We need an impartial party separate from the day to day Mod team who can look at both sides fairly and make decisions.
Like I said the mod team do a good job of moderating as a whole but when complaints about them are made they should not be handled by the same Mod team, it is bound to be a biased decision. The moderator should have no input other than to present their side of the case in exactly the same way as the member who has made the complaint; after all I cannot call on other members to sway the ear of the person who is making the decision so why should the Mod team have the privilege.
I will PM you with the issue I have at present and I agree that I do not want this thread to turn into an attack on the Mod team. I have respect and count many as friends and the comments here in no way apply to the majority. My point with this thread was to address the issue that if you are a Mod your behaviour has to be spotless and when it is not the machinery has to be there to make sure that the Mods are just as answerable as we the members are and at present I simply do not feel this is the case with a small minority of Mods. I have stated my point and I am happy to leave it at that.
Largely I think the mod team does a fantastic job and they are one of the main reasons that LO is such a great forum to use. I've never come across unreasonable mod behaviour myself, but I've never really done anything that might annoy the mods. So really, my only experience of moderators has been as fellow posters rather than authority figures.
I think generally the current system works fine because on the whole the mods are professional and I think that If I were to make a complaint it would be listened to and dealt with fairly. Because of the moderator chain of command there's always a bigger fish you can go to if you have a complaint about a particular mod. Still I do see your point about not being able to know how the moderators are dealing with such complaints, and they may well find it more difficult to punish one of their own than a regular Joe poster, but I still feel that the right thing will be done in the end.
Thou shalt remember:
Warhammer Fantasy armies do NOT have Codices. They have Army Books.
LINK - Guitarists of LO Group