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I think you do know what this is about (mods). In any case i was more appauled at the fact that not only did you flip out in the general area (ie not PMing the individual), but you don't just warn him but in fact blatantly insult him with immature and childish taunts, such as sarcastically misspelling your response or suggesting him (or me) to take classes to improve typing/spelling. not to mention the fact that further responses were not done in PMs either, which nearly derailed the thread.
For the love of god, follow your own rules, have some decency and act maturely and proffesionally (albeit this isn't a real job).
I have to say that for the vast majority of mod crackdowns that I have seen, the mods get to the point and let the person who broke the rules know what they did wrong and what they need to do to remedy the problem in a succinct and professional way.
On this one occasion however, I did happen to read the post in question and I have to say that i was a bit disappointed with the needless insults that were flung at the thread originator.
By implying that someone is affected by retardation merely because of some spelling and grammatical errors you are needlessly insulting both the person and making light of a serious problem that affects certain peoples lives (some of us do have members of our families that have "disabilities" and don't appreciate that kind of attitude about so-called "retards")
So I do agree that there was a problem that needed to be dealt with, but I seriously think that there was a more mature and respectful way to handle it.
Last edited by Phaeron Typhoon; November 18th, 2006 at 04:24.
"I am the architect of fate!"
I agree with what was said above, and I have read that lengthy post with the moderators which made me remember--------
I once read a post from a foreigner before (I think he was from Brazil?) but anyway he apoligized for not being able to write properly in English but technically speaking, and with reading what the moderators wrote, shouldn't he then be warned too? His grammar was poor just like Cubez but he was polite about it, I'll give that to their argument. But rules are rules according to the topic i just read.
Edit: Though I really do appreciate the amount of mod help around here, especially when you see army lists everyday being edited for point cost display, it must get annoying.
INQ, I have tried to explain this to you once, and I will do so again for the sake of the other members whom youâ€™re now trying to convince that the mod team was out of line, because we do not want our members to think that the forum rules are unfairly enforced on anyone at this forum.
What we were complaining to the member in question about was not his bad spelling. I repeat, the problem was not the fact that he had an awful application of the English language. The problem was that even after being approached by several moderators with subtle hints and then gentle guidance, after having other members, who are usually more lenient when it comes to rule infractions than the mod team, complain about his spelling in several posts on several threads, and after being neg-repped by other members for violating the forum rules on use of internet language, the member in question still didnâ€™t heed the rules or the moderatorsâ€™ warnings, not to mention he was pissing off other members.
These are not the signs of a dyslexic, foreign, or young member, these are the signs of a troll who wilfully and maliciously ignores the forum rules for the sake of disrupting our community and annoying people with his insistent and repeated disrespect not only for the forum itself, its rules and moderators, but worst of all, rude contempt for the other members and the time and effort they use on making this forum one of a very high standard of quality.
What you have to understand that we did PM this particular member, we did drop him several hints behind the scenes that he should clean up his act, we did go easy on him in several threads, even helping him correct his posts â€“ please remember that not everything we mods do is visible to the ordinary members, so donâ€™t jump to the conclusion that we went for the throat first with no fair warnings.
Even so, not once did he approach me about my comments on him, not once did he excuse his bad spelling or apologise to the members commenting on it. Until finally thereâ€™s nothing left for us to do but a serious crack-down and/or banning the disruptive individual in question for failing to follow the forum rules and the moderators.
Yes, I may have used harsh language with this particular member in a public post, but I felt this was the only way to make him listen to reason. And I was not ever implying that he was actually affected by a serious illness, what I said was that even a serious condition like mental retardation would not excuse what was merely him being too butt-lazy to use a spell checker.
As for offending the families of disabled people, I sincerely hope I didnâ€™t; in medical terms the word â€˜retardâ€™ has slipped out of all use many years ago, being replaced by more precise and less derogatory diagnostic terms, and has instead become a laymanâ€™s term for people of average intelligence behaving immaturely and childishly â€“ since my education has impressed on me a vocabulary which does not include â€˜retardâ€™ as a medical term, I admit I did not think twice about using it in this context; had I been referring to an actual condition I wouldâ€™ve used the proper term. My apologies to any who mightâ€™ve been offended.
So, to recapitulate this now rather lengthy post: we do appreciate if people take the time to write proper posts and spell-check them, but weâ€™re rather lenient when it comes to enforcing the rule on bad spelling because we of course realise that not everyone here has a masterâ€™s degree in contemporary English, least of all myself. We donâ€™t ban people for bad spelling, as the posters here seem to be thinking.
However, we are very strict with the rule on obeying the moderatorsâ€™ decisions, because otherwise the result would be chaos and anarchy. When we tell members that their behaviour is disrupting the forum, then we expect them to mend their ways or suffer the consequences â€“ unfortunately, the member in this sad case decided for the latter.
Many people have worked really hard on making Librarium Online a top-notch forum, and deliberately deciding against spending just 30 seconds running your post through a spell-checker when you know that many members find your posts unreadable is simply to piss on all those people, mods and members alike. This is our problem, and we wonâ€™t just â€˜chillâ€™ about that.
Last edited by Grephaun; November 18th, 2006 at 09:21.
"Girls are nice and cuddly on the outside, and freaky on the inside." ~ Lost Nemesis.
I concur one hundred percent. We Mods discussed the matter in a private IRC channel and decided that the perpetrator was deliberately taunting the LO membership with his slack spelling, That leaves him open to any form of repremand, private or public, that we choose to inflict. And the bonus of public repremands is that they act as examples.
Grephaun, as much as we appreciate your zeal and diligence, you don't have to respond at such length to these issues. You time is too valuable. You don't have to care QUITE so much.
Ryan Dancey, Vice President of Wizards of the Coast, believed that TSR failed because of "...a near total inability to listen to its customers, hear what they were saying, and make changes to make those customers happy." Are you listening, Games Workshop ?
I appreciate clarification on the matter, though i'm still not pleased with the way the situation was dealt with, especially about insults, which you only apologized for using retard in an offensive manner and not for insulting in general.
What i mean by "chill" is that you need to cool your jets. Yes, you need to enforce the rules, no , you don't have to cuss out forum members to do this. So, chill.
I've got to disagree with you 100% here.
The situation's been explained about 4 times, the member in question was still disregarding the rules after multiple warnings.
I think you'll find that the vast majority of LO members here appreciate the work the mods do to keep this board from devolving into "a r33l-E kul p1ac3 2 hnag 0ut".
The rules are there for a reason, if our friend who got a public dressing down had followed them when warned (any of the several previous times) none of this would be an issue. I can't see how the fault possibly lies with the mods (since they could have just banned him for continual disregard of said rules).
Baby, when I'm the voice of reason, we've got problems!~artificerSomeone should stop
Jervis "let's make it easy enough for a 3 year old to play" Johnson
before he turns 40k into checkers~anon
If this is about who I think it's about, he was warned NUMEROUS times by not only mods, but other members.
Regardless of his typing talents, mental capacity or other factors, his spelling was consistantly terrible - even if English was a second language, or he had limited knowledge of it or capacity with it. It isn't hard to use a spell checker, even if it winds up turning half of what is typed into gibberish (unlikely, but..), it's properly spelt gibberish and most users could probably make out what it means.
It's a completely different realm when you can't understand someone due to poor spelling.
I agree with the mods, even if I feel they acted a little bit over the top, I personally would have probably acted in the exact same manner in their situation. So am in no position to criticise.
Apathy is its own reward...
I appreciate the explanation Greph. I may have overreacted a bit, I am just slightly overly sensitive to that term (which is indeed still used in some unenlightened places as a medical phrase) being used to equate any number of different negative personalities and/or shortcomings that have nothing to do with people with disabilities, who cannot in any way help the way they are.
In retrospect I should have done exactly what this INQ character is complaining about and approached you with a PM discussing whatever problems were on my mind, instead of bringing this problem further into the public and therefore dragging it out when it has (apparently) already been resolved. For that you have my public and sincere apologies. As they say though, hindsight is 20/20.
On an off note, as I said before with the exception of infrequent misunderstandings such as this (in which no one is truly at fault). I feel the mod team here at L-O is truly a thing to be proud of. Blackhat obviously has high standards when it comes to picking who will have the honor of becoming the next mod, and all the current moderators do well to make his decision worthwhile.
You ladies and gents may or may not hear this often, but it is because of your efforts, that this is the best forum your ever likely to find on the Internet.
Last edited by Phaeron Typhoon; November 19th, 2006 at 10:31.
"I am the architect of fate!"
I still fail to understand why anyone thinks insulting the member, regardless of past offense, is acceptable. that is certainly not an action warranted by the mods under any circumstance.