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right in almost every army list I have seen they all seam to include skink chameleons and salamanders are they really that good besides the better BS are Chameleons really that much better than skirmishers? and are salamanders better than razordons i know salamanders have -3 armour save when they shoot but razordons have S 4 and up to 10 attacks and 20 on stand and shoot i cant wrap my head around why people would want so many salamanders can people please shed some light on the subject.
Template weapons every turn, per salamander in the unit, yes please.
Think about the Razordons, you roll for shots, roll for hit, roll for wound, and then roll to save. Each time your looking at loosing 50% average of what ever shots you generate. Where as with the Salamanders you could be hitting 15 models (roughly) per template, roll to wound, and then you need an armour save of 3+ just to get to roll an armour save.
Unit of 3 Rdons, lets say through a miricle they all roll 10, against dwarf warriors with shields. so 30 shots hitting on 4s, means your likey to get 15 hits, S4 vs T4 lets say 8 wounds (rounding up), and the dwarf player makes 3 saves. so you kill 5 dwarfs.
Unit of 3 Salamanders at same unit. Lets assume (being templates) that they werent all perfect artilary rolls for distance, so your lucking at 30 hits (to be fair its potentialy alot more), no roll to hit as your a template weapon, so rolls to wound, S3 vs T4, averages say 10 wounds (rounding up), -3 to armour saves means no saves, 10 dead dwarfs. Not sure if salamanders still count as flaming either, making them good against regen units if so.
Do you still get -1 to stand and shoot with Rdons? If so, if you got the maic 60 (with 2 dice per Rdon on S&S), your looking at 20 hits (rounding up), 10 wounds, 5 dead dwarfs. And that is from a perfect roll of 60. your more likely to get around the 30 mark worth of shots, and then you get hit by the unit nex turn. They are good against small units but for blocks, which do the real damage in armies, you want salamanders to cover them in templates.
no razordons dont get any negative mods unless the enemy is in cover or skirmisher but i get your point i will defiantly have to make some purchases soon
Personaly, i dont like the current salamander models, they look a bit like a turd with legs and a few frills, i mucy prefer the models or razordons which is why im considering sawpping out the models but keep the salamander rules. Razardons arent bad on paper, but salamanders just have the edge at getting the job done.
I think people prefer Chameleons skinks becuase of both the BS, the -1 to hit at range, and starting with scout ability. Not to mention that everyone loves chameleons with thier curly tails. Dont forget you automaticaly get -1bs for using multiple shot with blow pipes, so that extra BS makes huge difference when you are trying to get 20 shots (unit of 10) hitting on 6s or having to hit on 7s and missing out on poisoned.
all very good points I have had small success with razordons but against ork and goblins or other army's that are not well armoured they are good but yeah sometimes skirmishers just don't get the job done so i see the points and will have to draft up a new army list
At short range an enemy with a BS 3 that has not moved and are shooting at Skink Skirmishers requires 5+ to hit. The same unit shooting at Chameleon Skinks requires 6s. If you are keeping your skinks to the flanks of the enemy's shooting unit, then they will need 6's to hit the skirmishers and 7s to hit the chameleons.
Those are the reasons that I like playing with Skink Chameleons and the reason I don't like playing against them. I can waste time chasing down the Chameleon Skinks or I can ignore them at my peril.
Last edited by Sidewinder; May 31st, 2012 at 06:48. Reason: editing
Chameleons are really good. The only problem with them is that they have scout, and if your enemy doesn't, you will never get the +1 to go first. That is the one drawback that keeps me from fielding them too often.
I am right 94% of the time, why worry about the other 3%.
worth a try when i can get some