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Scar-Vet w/ Great Weapon, jaguar charm, LA, shield, Spawning of the Old Ones
Skink priest lvl 2
Skink priest lvl 1
Skinks x 10 w/ brave, scouts
Skinks x 10 w/ brave, javelins
Skinks x 10 w/ brave, javelins
Sauruses x 17 full command
Kroxigors x 3
Salamander x 1
Primary opponents- High Elves, Tomb Kings
I've heard people suggest 2 units of 12 sauruses rather than 1 of 24, but since i'm facing tomb kings, i'm worried that fear will screw me over if i use small units (autobreaking). I've considered making the sauruses immune to psychology, but i want to try playing once without it to see if the point increase is justified.
Both priests will take second sign, and i'm hoping that the lvl 2 gets one of the magic missile spells as well.
Kroxigors are mainly anti-chariot (TK).
I would suggest the following changes to the army.
1) Drop all the braves from the skinks. In my opinion a waste of points.
2) Drop the Lv 1 skink priest. Unless your going to take dispel scrolls on it, it's a waste in my opinion.
3) Drop one unit of skinks, add 5 to another (one unit of 15 instead of 2 units of 10)
4) With the spare points buy 2 more salamanders. (as pointed out earlier, they rock)
I hope this helps
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Ya, i wasn't sure about the braves.Originally Posted by gingerninjaBasically, my two main opponents being tomb kings and high elves, i need some more dispel power. Plus, more power dice for second sign. But i can see your point. I'll try to figure out other ways to get the dice.2) Drop the Lv 1 skink priest. Unless your going to take dispel scrolls on it, it's a waste in my opinion.Ya, they seem to be the MVPs of the lizardmen army in lots of peoples book. I'll grab another4) With the spare points buy 2 more salamanders. (as pointed out earlier, they rock)
If you want dispel power, replace the Priests for kitting the Scar-vet and the Saurus with a Spawning of Tepok. You'll have the same amount of DD for only 45 pts. You only won't be able to take scrolls, but you haven't bought them anyway.
If you also drop the Braves, you'll have enough points to max the Salamander unit out. Salamanders will be quite effective against HE and VC, as long as you don't misfire. But the damage potential these 3 of these creatures have against those armies is enormous.
The reason I acclaim for dropping the Priests is that against VC and magic-heavy HE, even 5 PD won't cast much.
You can expect 2 lvl2 Necros for VC, with a couple of scrolls at least. That'll be 6 PD you face.
If HE go magic, you probably will face only 1 Mage in this size, though he will be kitted out with all sorts of items and Honours, Bound spells etc.
As with most armies, Lizzie magic only comes forth good from 2k onwards. Only the Slann give the Lizzies the awesome magic capability they have. For there are only few armies with quite potent magic in smaller battles: High- and Dark Elves, VC, Tomb Kings and Tzeentch.
Yeah i agree with tai'shar
definatly get 3 salamanders since TK are flammable and HE have 3 toughness.
also braves suck. they dont do anything for their points.
also dont try to keep up with their magic: kill thier mages
use scouting skinks or chameo skinks
Last edited by Salamander6; September 13th, 2005 at 23:18.
Don't want to sound an ass, but it's Araith. Tai'shar is a salute.Of course. Though it's just wait and see whether the VC put his Necros inside units or not. They tend to sometimes. Or next to units of Skellies or Zombies. So don't rely on killing their mages alone.also dont try to keep up with their magic: kill thier mages
use scouting skinks or chameo skinks
Against HE though it'll be wonderfull. Their mages will be quite alone frequently and they have those RBTs: shoot them!
For some reason, tepok leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I just don't like it. No other way to put it.Originally Posted by Araith
Also, correction: It's TK, not VC, but most of your points are still valid.
Now, someone please help me out here:
I think lore of the heavens seems pretty cool. I think second sign seems like a very useful spell. In fact, i think the only one i don't really like is the meteor spell.
It seems like i'm the only one who thinks this way. To me, a lvl 2 skink could do a lot of good for my army. A couple rerolls a turn, and maybe a magic missile? Count me in. Or some rerolls in close combat? Not too shabby.
Point being, people seem really anti priest. Is the only decent mage a lvl 4 mage? Or do you just think i could get more use out of a salamander and a couple saurus than i can from a level 2 priest?
I reqorked my list somewhat, but i don't have it handy. Basically, it's:
JSoD w/ Great weapon, light armour, shield
Skink Priest (lvl 2)
Sauruses w/ spawning of Quetzl
Skinks javs x10
Skinks javs x10
Skinks scouts x10
Sry for that. But as you said, my points still stand.Also, correction: It's TK, not VC, but most of your points are still valid.
I agree with you that the Lore of Heavens is good. And a Lvl2 Priest can normally do good. And I'm not against Priests. Magic is not my favourite part of WHFB, but I understand the value.
The point is just, you won't get much through. Against most armies in 1k, you'll dominate the magic phase with your Lvl2 Priest, and completely with help of an additional Lvl1 Priest. But TK and magic-heavy HE will have better dispel ability than you have casting ability. Consequense, with luck you'll be able to cast 2nd Sign once in a game. You cannot match them at this point level.
At 1k, Lizzies aren't any better than other races are with magic (just a bit cheaper). Only at 2k, when the Slann come in play, will the Lizzies become one of the most potent magic armies in WHFB. Simple as that.
So don't try to cast spells against TK and magic-heavy HE in 1k. Because you won't succeed. If you want to keep your Priest, make him a Lvl1 Priest with 1 or 2 Scrolls. Then you'll prevent him from casting a lot. But it'll be costy.
The cheaper alternative is to drop the Priests altogether and buy as much Spawnings of Tepok as you can. You'll miss the Scrolls, but have more dice and units.
I usually play against HE, more often than not magic heavy, and I'd like to chip in a few pointers.
Takes saurii, skinks are a waste against the elves. HE archery and cavalry make mincemeat out of the little buggers, most experienced players will keep their vulnerable units ( Swordmasters, spearmen) out of reach and settle for engaging skinks with their 2+ AS silver helms.
A T4 saurus with a 5+ AS is another matter, no elf is looking forward to spending time in CC against it. The challenge is to reach them, preferrably before they reach you, and to endure the magic/shooting while advancing.
A few, say 1-2 units per 1000 pts, blocks of tough lizards can stand up to a lot of abuse both in and out of battle. Just don't make them too expensive, neither do you want to make them too small. The elves are slippery rascals and can focus a lot of hitting power on a target, indeed they must do so in order to hope to break saurii blocks. Blessed spawnings are mostly just a waste of points, quetzl and tepok being the only ones I sometimes use.
Denying the elves their precious mobility is key to winning, a unit of two of scouts can severly disrupt their movement and threaten the hideous repeater bolt throwers(RBT). don't bother with the archers, they're too weak to be a threat to anything but skinks, it's the mages and RBT that you need to worry about. If you can take out a RBT by sacrificing a unit of skinks then by all means do so, it's worth it.
When it comes to heroes and magic then the elves have the upper hand, most of the time. The two things you don't want to leave home without is a scroll caddie and a JSOD. A M9 saurus hero with a greatweapon is a joy to behold as it smashes its way through chariots and squishy elven cavalry alike. Surprises are bad for the elves health so stock up on it. Taking a slann against a magic heavy HE army is risky, it only takes one debilitating spell ( Fortune's fickle, drain magic...) to render your great and expensive toad nothing more than a 500pts standard bearer. Even if you bring scrolls and try your hardest to take down these spells they can still be cast with irresistable force. Then again magic, especially lore of heaven and shadow, can seriously kick some HE butt.
I'll second the call for more salamanders, they're killers against T3. Keep them close to your saurii and don't allow them to wander off on their own, they're no match for elven cavalry.
Base the army around some rather large blocks and support them with salamanders and the occasional kroxigors and you should do all right.
Against HE at 1k here's what I'd suggest:
1 scar-veteran( General, Glyph necklace, Jaguar charrm, LA&Sh, GW) - 143 pts
1 Skink priest( lvl.2, 2xdispel scrolls) - 150 pts
13 Skinks ( scouts) - 91 pts
15 Saurus Warriors( std) -192 pts
16 Saurus Warriors( std) -204 pts
3 Salamanders - 195 pts
Now that's only 975 pts so there is some room for fixes, but it's a solid core to build from.
wow my bad dude, i feel like an idiot nowOriginally Posted by Araith
anyways i think to focus on magic u need as lizzies under 2000 pnts and against HE and TK u need to focus ur units on magic too. Like taking out their mages. Then if they get too preocupied with that, u r lizardmen and have lots of different resources so you can beat them with something else like saurus. Also i disagree with kroxhandler. i would suggest some skinks against HE because u need em to get ur saurus forwards. also on ur most recent list kroxies are almost useless against TK and HE escept for the HE cavalry, and scouting skinks can take care of that.