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Hi, I am looking for some advice as I will be playing a 2000 point game for the first time with my Lizardmen. Ive been set-up to play against a supposedly powerful army after my regular gaming group gets consistantly beat by my 1k Lizardmen force.
Having not played Warhammer for long and never faced Vampire Counts, I would like some advice on how to beat them and what I need to use to counter their strengths. I think my opponent uses two big units of zombies as tar pits combined with graveguard and black knights. I also believe he uses ghouls and a ethereal mob to harass flanks. I also think he uses a Carstein Vampire with lots of necromancer support to dominate magic and to move and increase unit size.
Here is the list I have composed so far based on my slim knowledge of VK and experience with Lizardmen;
Slann - 2nd Gen with Plaque of Tepok and Dominion. Uses Diadem of Power
Saurus Scar Veteran - Light Armour, Shield, Spear. Blessed Spawning of Itzl and Sotek. Rides a cold one and equipped with venom of the Firefly Frog.
Skink Priest - lvl2 and scout
12 Skinks - Javelin and Shield
12 Skinks - Blowpipes, scouts
20 Saurus Warriors - Full Command
5 Cold One Riders - Standard and Musician
I have tried to go with fear causing Lizards so that the undeads main strength is negated. Ive chosen a Slann and a 2nd gen at that to try and dominate magic by either denying his crucial spells and hurling enough magic missiles to negate any zombies he summons.
My plan would be to focus everything on his black knights then graveguard except the salamanders who will try and fry the ghouls. After the key threats have hopefully been removed I can then use my faster fear causing Lizards to flank the zombie units.
I have a couple of questions regarding Vampire Counts;
I understand they can march if the army general is within 12" but do march blockers such as skinks prevent this? Can they still march if something is within 8"?
How powerful and how big a pool of dice should I expect at 2000 points and have I taken enough to weaken his magic phase?
Will my Saurus Scar Vet be capable of killing and etheral units of his? I have given him venom of the firefly so that he is capable of doing this should my Slann fail. Do I need to find the points to give him a ward save in case he gets dropped by killing blow?
Will I have enough firepower to break his graveguard and black knight units? I plan on taking the basic magic missile spells and hope for a nice law of metal or law of light magic missile.
I have not taken a battle standard bearer because if I fail combat it will probably only be with my saurus who will most likely be outnumbered and run anyway and I plan on keeping my Slann away from any chance of being engaged. All my other units are hopefully fast enough to get the charge or hard enough to withstand one and they are all immune to fear as they cause it.
Is there anything else I should worry about? All advice appreciated.
First to answer your questions
-Undead cant march if theres an enemy within 8"
-Looks like hes takin a count and 3 necromancers which will be 10 power dice also expect a power familiar plus 1 or 2 bound items so thats 11 power dice plus bounds and he will have 7 dispell plus any scrolls
-your scar vet should hurt the spirit host bad and it might be a good idea to give him a ward as all wights(grave gaurd, black knights) have killing blow either that or avoid them and go for the ethereals
- if you concentrate all your magic missiles on the wights you should be able to reduce ther effectiveness enough to deal with them in combat, lore of light works well against undead if you can get the last spell in that list it can be really destructive
As for your list i dont think the cold one riders are as effective compared to some more kroxigor and skinks, i would also suggets puttin the scar vet on foot with the m9 item as he alone can deal with ghouls and spirit host and will be quick enough to charge them early
Try to add a cube of darkness as this will be great to use for his first turn and first spell as that could shut down one whole phase of magic, then use the diadem of power to save a dispel dice ready for the next magic phase. Doing that will really limit what he can do.
During the game pick what you dispel wisely as you want be able to stop everything, though your magic should overwhelm him so you will be killing wights with magic missiles each turn. Let him come to you and targey stuff he cant reraise and use your skinks to march block him to buy you more time to blast him with spells.
Hope this helps!
BEN DIESEL FTW!!!
Thanks for the advice! Unfortunatly as a new player I dont have more than 6 Kroxigor or 24 Skinks (yes I plan to get more of both).
I gave the Saurus Scar vet a cold for several reasons, improves his movement, increases his save (which will be irrelevent vs killing blow) and he now causes fear which makes him immune. So its an overall cheaper way than having charm and blessed spawning of ignore psychology.
I think I need to jiggle the list to get cube in! I will also try to give the skink mark of the old ones for rerolls on that cube. Problem will also be cutting the points for ward save on the scar vet.
Any more advice please?
edit: Thats a frightening about of power and dispel dice. Will by Slann be effective at all? What level is a vampire count and is it worth draining him or saving power dice for more missiles?
A count is a lv 1 wizard that can be upgraded to lv2 so with 3 lv 2 necromancers it will be 8 levels in total plus 2 power dice basic and 1 frpm the power familiar though he may not take one, with that much invested in magic a cube will be awesome deffinatly use one.
Your slann will still be effective remember he gets +2 to casting and the free dice for each spell which makes alot of difference. Youll have enough dice to cast the magic missiles and drain magic just drain the wizard with the best spells like vanhels danse and curse of years if he gets them that is!!
BEN DIESEL FTW!!!
I would have to agree with everything said so far, although personally I would keep the cold one riders as they in my opinion are awesome in combat. What I would say to do is give one of your saurus blocks the mark to immunise yourself against fear. What I would suggest you do is keep your cavalry in the centre of your saurus blocks, re-equip your scar vet with the BS and Sword of Might, don't move your full movement with the cavalry, let him get close to you, as unless he takes dogs of war he is unable to use any kind of war machines. Then if his general isnt dead by your magic by then see if you can charge him with the cavalry and saurus blocks (if possible). Slow him down as much as possible with the skinks, they are next to useless vs undead otherwise. 3 salamanders are fantastic for taking hordes of T3 models down.
I would drop three Kroxigors and bump the saurus cavalry up if possible. Your scar vet probably won't need a ward save if you play him right ALTHOUGH, watch out for his bat swarms and damn dire wolves, special abilities can't be dispelled. Other than that, the suggestion for the cube of darkness is highly recommended and remember your slanns bonuses to roll! He gets a FREE dice every time he rolls a spell. Lore of light all the way I would say vs undead, it pretty much gaurentees you get that #6 spell with the plaque of tepok.
P.S. Forgot to mention watch out for his cavalry, they tend to move 18" and hit with S6 on the charge! So they may hurt your flanks. Kroxigor (unit 4 recommended) take care of this problem quite well with skinks screen.
Last edited by Panda; July 15th, 2007 at 04:32.