Welcome to Librarium Online!
Join our community of 80,000+ members and take part in the number one resource for Warhammer and Warhammer 40K discussion!
Registering gives you full access to take part in discussions, upload pictures, contact other members and search everything!
Hi, everyone. I've been flipping through my new lizardmen army book for a while now, trying to create some good lists for a campaign me and my friends are getting started. For my 2000 point list, I wanted to use a Slann in it, but by the time I added all the plaques and magic items, and a unit of bodyguard Temple Guard, it ended up being nearly half my list. I tried using this list against my friend's HIgh Elves and found my tiny army eviscerated while the Slann was fumbling with poorly chosen and rolled spells.
So my question is: how many points are a good idea to spend on a Slann in certain points? Is one even worth taking at 2000 points, or was I just wasting points that should have been spent elsewhere in the list?
I'm very new to Lizardmen (but not Warhammer), so there's probably some obvious solution I'm overlooking. Thanks for any help and advice.
At my local club, one guy has a Slann that he runs as 2nd Gen, Plaque of 2++ Save against shooting, Diadem of Power etc, plus an obscenely oversized unit of Temple Guard, topped off with a Scar-Vet. All of this costs just over 1Kpts and it is truly nasty.
For the first month or so he was next to impossible to defeat, but now we have his number. Just hurl something big at it. For Binz, it was a Chaos Lord on Dragon into his flank. For me, Karl Franz and a Warrior Priest leading a large unit of Knights.
Anyways, I imagine your build is about right. I think it all comes down to Lore choice. The Lore of Fire, for example, is evil against your HE opponent (OK, barring Dragon Princes) with all the S4 Magic missiles. The Lore of Metal, on the same note, is excellent against Bretts and Dwarfs because of all the armour-nullifiers and so on that are present.
A very clever tactic is to take the Bane Head and the default spell in the Lore of Metal. Target a Hero-level character you particularly hate (say a BSB ), cast the default spell on them and watch the wound double. From one easy to cast spell, you've potentially scored yourself 250+ VPs like that.
Just experiment around, and you'll find what Lores do and don't work against specific opponents. The great thing is that you can generate spells after deployment, so you can know precisely what he has.
Last edited by ArchonFarseerGuy; July 16th, 2008 at 03:57.
Hey, thanks for the fast reply. I like that bane head/ lore of metal idea, probably use it on one of his pesky wizards. So, what you're saying is I should spend an ungodly amount on my Slann each battle? I can just see that unit being flank charged by my enemy's entire army.
Put it this way. The only way you'll get killed is by breaking and running. You are Cold-blooded Ld9. You are Stubborn. Your Slann should have a BSB. Cances of you fleeing are next to 0.
Most lists I've seen that use Slann have that many pts poured into it. It will either work beautifally or fail epically.
If you have Skinks and a Saurus unit or two, you should be able to prevent your unit getting massacred.
The Bane Head (which, to set the record straight, was Stonehambeys idea) also works with Steal Soul, giving your 2nd Gen Slann 10 Wounds.
Remember, the Slann can cast over the combats.
for 2000 points I would suggest 4th generation with watever you like I think 2nd gen is to much points for 2k
2nd gen slann in 2000 pts is all or nothing. 4th gen is okay, but its magic doesn't allow you to totally dominate (as you rightly should) unless you take tons of skink priests, which robs you of your scar vet.
If you are thinking about taking a slann, especially for a series of battles such as your campaign, I would advise you to take the 2nd gen slann but to protect him very carefully, especially in the flanks, (as archonfarseerguy said). In a campaign I would expect to see a lot of toughies, like star dragon high elf prince, chaos lord on dragon etc., which will, unfortunately rip through the temple guard like tissue paper.
Getting hit in the flanks isn't a problem if you're stubborn. Yet (as seen here) people still find it hard to resist if they see the opportunity for one. You can even use this to your advantage. Conveniently exposing a flank, holding, and setting up a devastating counter charge.
In 2000pts games, the last 4 games with my Lizzies I've been playing 2nd Gen Slaan. As all the schools are know, I use him as a MMMG - Magic Missle Machine Gun. Pop off all the magic missile spells you can, then cast Drain Magic at full power to stop his biggest magic user. It's nice and demoralizing against someone.
I've also seen someone at our club play his Slaan alone. Hides him towards back of battlefield, and uses skink priests for line of sight. I'm going to try it soon.
Evan GotteWargaming since 1992Wargames are like Chess on Steroids
I have never seen the use of the 2nd gen slann. For 135 points, you boost a magic phase that's already strong. But for 195 points, you can buy ANOTHER unit that shoots artillery dice, automatically hits, and is a pretty capable fighting unit that takes some heat off your giant slann mage. In essence, the slann costs you a rare slot that contains one of the best shooting units in the game!
A naked with just the diadem of power is usually throwing 8 dice a turn. Pretty good, I say. Add in two cheap level two skink priests, you're throwing twelve dice and upping the firepower of your other units using the Portent of Far from the skink priests. You even have a slot for your jaguar saurus if you want it.
I also don't think temple guard are worth it. You can make a regular unit of saurus warriors immune to psychology for cheap and they'll hold nearly as well as the temple guard. Take the difference in points and buy a unit like kroxigors, who will make your opponent think twice about charging your slann's unit.
I take 15 saurus warriors for my slann's unit and give them immune to psych. If I'm fairly certain that my opponent isn't going to sneak a unit through and try to attack the slann (flyers, fast cavalry, tunnelers), I'll drop him out of the unit and send the saurus out to fight on their own.
ArchonFarseerGuy, you generate your spells BEFORE deployment. Also, you have to roll your highest spellcasters first. Page 111 in the rulebook.
Slann magic lore tips:
since you roll spells before deployment, you don't always know what you need. If you're playing daemons, wood elves, or undead, loading up on the fire lore is good. If you're playing a cavalry heavy army, you almost have to have that number 6 spell on the metal lore. But against most opponents, I have learned to be conservative with my magic and take spells that have relatively low casting costs and don't have a chance to give you a useless spell. You do this with magic missiles. The machine gun slann is the most effective choice you can make and you can assure yourself of most of the spells going off.
My general method:
1. Take a roll on the death lore. Hope for Wind of Death. If you get it, roll again and take Dark Hand of Death, too. Occasionally I'll keep doom and darkness to combo with my shooting, making units run away. But Dark Hand and Wind are your big boys here.
2. Take a roll on the light lore. 90% of the time I'll just opt for Burning Gaze, no matter what I roll.
4. Roll on the fire lore. Hope for Fiery Blast. Conflagration of Doom is a little overrated for what you need to cast it and Wall of fire can be situational, but both are ok. If I get fiery blast, I take another roll and usually opt for the Fireball. If I didn't get any of the big ones and had to opt for the fireball on the first roll, I take a roll on the metal lore.
5. Roll on the metal lore. Hope for Distillation of Molten Silver or Spirit of the Forge. If you get either, roll again to see if you get the other one and opt down to Rule of Burning Iron if you don't.
With this system, you are guaranteed four direct damage spells. Most of the time, you end up with two big ones and two little ones, which is what you want. You want one big, scary one that your opponent will throw a lot of dice at to dispel (conflagration, wall, spirit of the forge, or comet on your skink shamans). You throw that one first, make him waste dice to dispel it, then pelt him with magic missiles until you run out. If I take the plaque of tepok and get another spell, I will usually roll again on fire or metal and hope for a good one.
As far as skink priests, you're wanting Forked Lightning and Uranon's Thunderbolt. If my slann hasn't rolled a big scary spell and my skink priest rolled the comet, I will keep it. Otherwise, I'll opt down to portent of far, simply because rolling 3 dice to get a 12 result is a little iffy.
You cannot afford to throw away dice, even as a second gen slann mage. You pay too much to have an aggressive magic phase and you need to maximize it every turn. Your job is to try to get as many small spells through as you can. Your opponent is going to try and knock the big ones down and hope you roll badly on the others. A general rule: anything that needs a 7-10 to get, go ahead and throw 3 dice at it. Consider throwing 4 dice at anything that needs and 11-12+. At anything that needs a 5 or 6 to cast, throw 2 dice at it. Don't go less unless you simply don't have the dice to throw. You want to make sure that you either push the spell through or MAKE your opponent dispel it. The worst thing is to throw 2 dice at a spell that needs a 7+ to cast and fail. You've lost two dice, you lost the chance to cast a spell, and your opponent didn't have to do anything to dispel it. Know the odds of casting. Not a math person, but I think it's right...
On a slann:
With 1 dice, your chances of getting the spell off at 5+ (most magic missiles) is 50%. With 2 dice, it's 91.7%.
With 2 dice, your chances of getting the spell off at 8+ (most bigger magic missiles) is 58.3%. With 3 dice, it's 88%.
With 3 dice, your chances of getting the spell off at 12+ (most of your huge magic missiles) is 50%. With 4 dice, it's 79.5%.
See the difference? Make sure that you're playing the odds and getting your spells to go off, rather than throwing less and being less reliable. I would rather throw more dice and be sure that it's going to go through rather than have it fail and be on an even keel in dice with my opponent and nothing to show for it.
If your opponent has a ton of dispel scrolls but not many dispel dice, you need to burn up those scrolls early. Your opponent is generally holding his dice for your killer spell and using the dispel scrolls as a backup plan. I like starting with my smaller missiles and smaller spells like portent of far. Your opponent will likely let those go through, waiting for your big spells. I cast the skink priests' magic missiles or portent of far first, since there's little chance for miscast and portent of far is amazing on a unit of salamanders, skinks, or even the slann mage (On the sallies and slann, portent lets you reroll the wounds but not their hits. Still amazing!)
After all the small missiles and the skinks' magic, you'll usually have around 4 dice left and he'll usually have around 3-4 dice. Throw your biggest, hairiest spell that you've got whether it's the 2D6 hit spells, Comet, or Conflagration, or anything else. With a +1 to cast and 4 dice, your opponent usually will be scared to try to knock it down using his remaining dice. So he'll burn a dispel scroll. At that point, you'll slip all your magic through with the exception of the big one, which he wasted a scroll getting rid of. And best of all, he'll usually have 3-4 dice left over that he can't do anything with, that he could have used against your small missiles, but didn't because he was fearing your scary spell!
Against someone with a ton of dispel dice, your job is to get rid of his dice early, so that you're grossly mismatched in dice. Someone If he's got 6-7 dispel dice, you need to throw that big spell early. Make him think about burning those dice. Most of the time, your opponent will throw more dice than you do to knock down a spell and still fail. If not, your big spell goes through and your opponent prays it doesn't do much damage. But most of the time, they'll throw dice at it, which puts you at a huge advantage, since you have a ton of spells left with cheap casting costs. Most of the time, they'll burn through their dice and you'll have three spells at the end that they simply don't have the dice to stop. What you don't want is them competing on an even keel with you, knocking down your smaller spells.
Concentrate on getting the bulk of your smaller magic spells through and your slann will perform much better. He can occasionally whack a home run with a big spell, but the smaller ones are just easier to cast and much more reliable.