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I am weighing up the two to see which is more worth it. Admittedly they fill slightly different roles, but here is my pro's and cons:
Longer range than Razordons.
-3 armour save.
Can't stand and shoot.
Only Strength 3.
Get 2 artillery dice when standing and shooting.
Have to roll to hit.
To get best out of them they need to be charged, not the eaisest thing to achieve as opponents will just avoid them. Also by rolling 2 Artillery dice each you run a higher chance of misfiring.
At Range 12" have a shorter range than Salamanders.
Overall I just can't see Razordons being taken over Salamanders, but I am open to convertion!
You forgot a pro for the salamanders. Causing one wound makes the unit take a panic check.
I agree that the salamanders are better than the razordons. In most lists I have made so far though, I don't take either. If I do take one, it is salamanders.
I am right 94% of the time, why worry about the other 3%.
there are a few units (dragon armor comes to mind) that ignore flaming shots, if you play high elves at all. I'll have to admit, that I would prefer another unit of skinks in my army over either of the two.
I actually like Razordons more. They are much better at wiping out skirmishers and fast cav while Salamanders work better against armored units like Dwarfs and Knights. I've already got unit to handle said tin cans (Saurus, Kroxigor), but those annoying units are handled by Razordons.
Plus, the model is so awesome
Excellent points, that's something to consider (lucky ==Me== I haven't bought any models yet ). Skirmishy units like Skinks, Shades, and Gutter runners are getting on 5+ and killed on a 3+. With all the shots the 'dons pump out it should be painful. Lightly armored fast cav end up going the same way, with just a little armor in the way (usually negated by S4). Their stand and shoot reaction screams out as the perfect bait for frenzied troops and characters.
Sallies I find have trouble with this sort of unit because they're small or spread out, minimizing the amount of hits you can score and increasing the chance of missing altogether. They can roast a big blocks of heavy infantry though, wounding Ironbreakers on 5+ with only a 6+ save.
how many razordons are you putting into one unit, maybe you're getting more effective shooting from numbers. I've used leadbelchers in units of 2-3 and frankly they've been pretty hit or miss and have a much better range and overall rules compared to the razordons. I've found that the new book point costs just don't allow for units that I can't count on (razordons and sallies) or that only get one shot and then die or get in combat or whatever. I don't have points to fit in everything I need anyway. If they had made the sallies a true "breath weapon" attack, I'd probably squeeze them in (march and spew) but otherwise I can't see a use for them. If you've found something that works for you please tell us. I'm still in unbelief that they would make all these new models, but then make terrible/overcosted/poorly-developed rules for them, so no one would buy them (I thought GW was in financial trouble) as in sallies, razordons, kroxigors, terradons and even the stegadons.
I'd love to take something from the rare slot, but my estimation is that 225 pts for something that a 7Xpt unit can do just as effectively is a poor trade off. Now you might get lucky and really put out some fire power one turn, but my experience with arty dice means that there would be several turns where I'd do 0-2 wounds or just end up eating my own guys and I don't feel that most lizzie lists can stand to have one unit not doing anything for a turn.
Sallies in units of 3 would be awesome to munch up huge ranked units or hordes armies, but their range is so terrible that I'm afraid they wouldn't make it into position. They're still not very accurate and very expensive imo. So I'm left to taking skinks just because I know what they're going to do and how to use them. And if someone eats a unit, they weren't chewing up my expensive units and I'm not out a bunch of points.
Last edited by buckero0; February 10th, 2009 at 15:54.
I use Razordons like I use Ratling Guns in ==My== Skaven army. They protect the flanks by hiding behind or near ==My== lines. Razordons have the good fortune of being survivable so I can use them more aggressively, going up a flank to threaten enemy skirmishers/fast cav or just charging in with a bunch of S5 attacks. Frenzy bait is fun too. I typically run 2-3, because 1 just isn't reliable with a single artillery dice.
Skinks are more for screening, baiting, fleeing, and redirecting. Any damage they do I consider a bonus. Razors are a flexible skirmishy death unit, somewhat similar to Flamers.
I like the idea of both units i am sure both are better at certain things ther other isnt. Once i begin my lizzies army i am tempted to take take a unit of each but i am sticking to more of a big dino army 1 anicent and 2 normal stegadons so its gonna be a tight squeese even for just 1 unit of 3.
I agree tho salamanders for dealing with high armoursave and cavelry armies and Razordons for more lighter armoured armies. I am not sure tho about damage you can cause lots with both and 6 artillery stand and shoot is gonna be nasty and Its very very random so its all about taking a chanch to field them.
Both units of still can make a decent combat units with only heavy armour save and t4 to protect them there abit fragile.
I haven't tried the Razordons yet, but I can say that I really like the new sallies, and I can tell you that a Warriors of Chaos player really really hated them haha. One benefit of the razordons however, and I plan on trying this eventually, is that if you have a lone slann, park 3 razordons in front of him, it will make the opponent think long and hard whether he wants to charge at them to get to the slann beause of the 2 artillery dice on shots.