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Hey, first time poster. Just went to pick up the new army book today, as it is when the GW shipments come in at the hobby stores in my city. Was reading through the new book and couldn't help but feel meh.
I play an oldblood 3 scarvet army heavy skinks, saurus, 4krox and 3 salamanders and 4 terradons. This new list really seems to hurt my army, and scrolling down a bit if you want to see why faster, otherwise ill go more in depth.
Oldbloods and scarvets I think are better statwise and option wise, but the magic item section got less to my tastes. My main weapon for my oldblood in the lastgame was the revered blade of tzunki, which stayed the same, and the charm of the jaguar warrior, which got a lot worse. Now, I can see a scarvet with the charm having some success in a slann army, but with only one powerlevel 5 charm to dispell, what else should your opponent throw his dice at. I do like the blsde of realities. but now without the charm to give me a boost I pretty much have to send him in mounted or he'll never reach combat.
Scarvets got better overall, with the main equipment here staying the same and one getting better. I usuall grab a bsb with the sword of the hornet, one on a coldone with minimal gear and one with a gw (smeared with frog venom making it magical and poisonous) and the aura of quetzl to deal with giants and treemen and other such who get too close. I am now tempted to add the sield of the mirrored pool which did get better, but this is evened out by the aura, which got much worse.
The above used to have +1armour spawning, +1 dd (except cold one rider) and the oldblood had immunity to psychology. Not much bothered by others except dd spawning, as this was how I could fight magic heavy armies (mainly skaven, Tzeentch High elves, counts and tombkings, who I usually play and usually bring 10 or more pd to the table.)
My saurus got better, but I kinda feel the spear issue was so people would buy more boxes so thats why that was changed, but really cant complain as it is business. Big one is that I usually had them spawned with +1 dd. See above,
Skinks- got more expensive. Have 30 jav and 40 blow. I now pay an extra point to have javelins, and they cant scout? They have an extra leadership which helps oh so much since they are usually in range of my general or are expected to flee anyways(and Probably still will since they still cant fight.) Chamelion skinks got an even bigger kick in the balls since they traded in their special deployment rule for +1 ld. I rarely took them before and would never take them now since they are still overpriced and now aren't even specialized.
Krox got what 3 pts cheaper for -1 STR. They were for dealing with rather annoying arch lectors on war alters (which I still feel is the most broken thing in the game. Arch lector on war alter with pendulum and the hammer that makes you take toughness tests, maybe some meteoric armour. Hey, I can kill everyone), chaos chariots and tombkings chariots. They also dealt with chosen and hammerers well when crashing into a flank. I think they are shit now since other things can do almost as good for a heck of a lot cheaper. And sticking them in skinks? Come on, give us back the rule where we can rank up when charged and 6+ scaly skin svs and Ill consider it.
Terradons. Really not sure. I can drop rocks in the remaining moves phase, but they should be used for warmqachine hunting, which I wouldnt take the chance on dropping rocks on in case I didn't kill them all. When not fighting a warmachine army I can see some use, but overall not sure.
Salamanders got way worse. How many skaven guys you know take warpfire throwers instead of ratling guns? And more expensive you say, But wait, razerdons do the same, for only more points and hit half the time. Because those damn wood elves hiding in the trees casting annoyance at you that your skinks can only hit on an 8 arent what these guys were for before. But razerdons get two artillery dice when charged, but since they roll to hit and -1 for getting charged maybe -1 for getting charged by skirmishing wardancers, that makes them better. *As I shake my head*
I do like the new cold one riders, but the banner which made them feared is now what every other army has, d6 inches to your first charge. wow.,
carnosaurs Im not gonna say they got better because this was how they should have been in the first place and any changes done to them would have been better. I feel yes, they were that poor before...
Didnt field temple guard, so Ill leave that to you guys. Did notice a hero that makes them all stubborn. Pretty sure they were stubborn with a slann before.
Stegadons still too expensive for my blood. I have always found an equally priced unit of saurus is much more effective. Ancients are also meh. a mount for a crappier scarvet(skink priests did get better I guess) or an engine which costs 300ish pts(yes, somewhere around 300 is the actual point value) and gives me -1 to a lore, 5+ward svs and some other crappy one. Again, would rather have tried and true saurus.
and the big one for a lot of people, the slann. I had in fact purchased and painted one for the new book. Tested him out under the old rules. Liked what he could do in a single magic phase that took 2-3 enemy wizards to do. Then got this new one. Hes more supportive and less specialized, but when I bring a 500 pt giant toad of death to the table he should be a giant toad of death. And rollingdice like I do I see him going away from a single miscast, or buying that crappy upgrade, two miscasts. And whats that, his plaques or now arcane items, so I can only buy one...wow, gw, wow.
Yeah I know some of you are going to be saying I am just whining, or should take some time to get used to the new rules, but I really feel this is a meh change, with most things that did get changed having almost exactly the same effect, and things that didn't getting changed for no real reason.
And pre-emptively, the organ gun doesn't roll to hit, why should salamanders?
Looking to see what everyone else thinks,
- swearing is against forum rules. next time when you are in a book inspired frenzy to spew out bile i would recommend checking the rules to where you are throwing your rants.
Last edited by Arklite; February 12th, 2009 at 09:17.
You really need to read the forum rules and edit your post there. As a first time poster, thats a pretty curse ladden post. Lots of kids on here and that kind of language wont fly. Tone it down and edit. You can still be displeased and get your points across without the cursing.
lol i didnt think that was that bad course i live in redneck ville
but are you kidding me i have there srmy book bought in my house right now there fine
cant beleave people are complaining
skinkss smartss wess killsss allss enemyss
I'm finally getting into fantasy because of lizardmen with the right combinations these guys can be awesome slann and scar-vets/old bloods
then basic infantry well for basics its pretty darn impressive for 12pts you get pretty good stats 2 attacks T4 scaly skin and cold blooded 3d6 makes it a lot easier to pass LD TEST
so if you dislike new army book then don't play them I'll buy your stuff gladly as I'm only just starting an army.
serious about buying your army pm me with a list and price.
Last edited by spike12225; February 12th, 2009 at 08:46.
I've enjoyed them so far, placed 3rd in a tourney last weekend with a slann army with no saurus. I played an oldblood variant as well with lots of saurus and I am very impressed with these guys now, especially when you put spears on them, I am thinking of putting spears on all my sarus now. I have taken charges from Tomb King charoits and high elf swordmasters with these units and still won combat. Engine of the Gods I am pleasently suprised with as well. It really helps you control the middle of the table because people are afraid of that no armour save nuke I did about 400+ points on damage one turn with that bad boy against a WoC army.
Disapointment for me in the book is the versatility of skinks going down, and so far Kroxigors, even though I love the new models..have done nothing for me. I think my next variants will most likely be a Slann with a TG unit and as many saurus I can find. It is hard to fit 2 units and a TG unit in one army though when my area for some reason is in love with 2k instead of 2250.
Isn't 2k the global standard for Fantasy?
Anyhew, on the main point, I think the new book is packed full of nasty combos. I thought warriors were pure awesomeness until I realised how many other units have two attacks base.
Think about the difference in price between a WoC and a Saurus Warriors...
Well, on the language front not used to certain words being labeled curse words, around here anyway we say F* every other word. Amen to you in Redneckville brother.
Anyways, I see a lot of how saurus got better posts. Well, I do not own any spear wielding ones, and as a personal choice will stick with the hw and shield for the armour save, but my saurus had the same armour save before do to quetzl.
The biggest thing that gets me now is the salamanders and losing the spawning which gave me access to dd (tepok?). The jaguar charm is now useless in a non magic list as well.
Its not so much a bad book as a what really changed book.
Any other fighty lizardmen lists out there have any solutions for the magic front. My opponents here in Regina are mainly heavy magic. Tkings, HElves, WElves, VCounts, Empire bound item army, skaven army of doom and a ogre kingdoms butcher army. The non magic lists are usually dwarfen anvil or brettonian cav lists.
yeah 2k or 2.5k is uaually the tourney size but 2999 and 3999 battles are fun as well.
One idea for saurus with spears is use the old temple guard if you got them and then pick up a couple boxes of the new ones because they look fantastic. I feel that the Slann should have +1 to cast regardless of builds...lore is that they are the best casters in the world, not the best in the game imo. Vamps destroyed my magic phase in that tourney...though he did have 3 corpse carts(anyone else think those shouldnt stack?) haha
I am not satisfied totally. My main dissappointment is the magic item section. All the useless one use items, the points cost that basically nullify any combos on heroes, and the total lack of talismans, while all the good items are in the enchanted item section, makes it hard to tool out a hero for sure.
As for the units, I can't see fielding any of the rare choices all that often. And the nerf to the terradon riders was a little excessive.
For all that, I think I can still field a competitive list. And look at the bright side, when you win, you can certainly claim it was due to better generalship, as the new rules certainly won't help you much.
I am right 94% of the time, why worry about the other 3%.
@Ultra - While Saurus with sword and board do have the same armor save as they used to with the added spawning, they are cheaper now. Regular saurus came down a point, and spear saurus came down two points (and gained 2 attacks on the 2nd rank). Plus you dont need to pay for spawnings to get them a decent armor save.
That was one of my biggest issues with the old book: a lot of things NEEDed spawnings to be considered competative. And even then, there was only a couple that you actually took.
I feel a lot of things have changed in this book, some good, some not so good. What it does that is very good is that it provides a lot of options for us to play with. My other army is dark elves, and the general concensus is that DE, as an army, can be built for a number of different playstyles and still be aggressive and effective. I feel lizards are the same way, with a lot of flexability in army type, a nice change from the fairly cookie cutter builts of old.