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Ive Been having trouble with Dark Elves Lately, I find it Impossible to deal with the Dark Elves at my Store with a Close Combat Lizard army. At least at my store, Dark Elves are the cheesiest army ever, I cant match their combat, yesterday I played a game against a Dark Elf and was massacred simply because he had 2 uber squads of death, heres what he had...
a squad of 30 executioners 6x5 With a BSB and 2 magic banners
a squad of 25 5x5 Black Guard with his Lord on a cold one
both squads had an assassin in them and a cauldron behind them
so basically his executioner squad got +1 attack from the cauldron,always strike first and Armour piercing from magic banners, so thats 11 str 6 Armour piercing attacks, plus his hag BSB which had 9 attacks str 4 killing blow, plus his assassin which also had 9str 4 killing blow attacks, and then of course everyone has hatred
His Black Guard had the 1+ attack from the cauldron and a Dreadlord with red fury 2+ Armour inverse ward, and Regen, so thats 13 str 4 attacks and 5 str 6 attacks from his Dreadlord, plus his assassin who had 9str4 attacks killing blow, all of which has Hatred
Even my 2 Squads of 18 Temple Guard with a Scar Veteran in Each, one of which was a BSB both of which had great weapons, got massacred without any attacks back and he than proceeded to rip through the rest of my army, please leave any combos advice or tips to beating this Dark Elf cheese
what does your army look like? Anyone putting that much into 2 units should have very little else in the way of support. Stegadons and blowpipes will whittle those down easily. In fact, as you begin to eat their troops (while march blocking and shooting them) get into position to charge them with your stegadons (preferably in the flank) All stegadons should be ancient (engine or giant blowpipes) If you have a steg with warspear, you can charge his executioners (if they stay )and then challenge his bsb or champion out limiting the hits back at you. I don't know what to do about the assassins, but you should kill 8 or so troops with impact hits alone, with the warspear, in a challenge, the most he can do is 6 with overkill, and you should save some of those with your 2+ armor save. He doesn't get 9 attacks automatically either, the best he can get is 4 +D3 from an assassin.
There is no Red Fury in the dark elf book.
I also like 2 units of terradons to drop rocks and tie up bolt throwers.
I say get 5 units of skink skirmishers and he'll start crying that your army is broken.
Last edited by buckero0; March 26th, 2009 at 19:22.
Wow i cant believe I never that of that thx thats some awesome advice, oh and also yeah he rolled all 5s and 6s for his d3 attacks, plus the cauldron plus 2 hand weapons, so yeah 9 attacks unless he did it wrong, probably should have mentioned that. Yeah I wasnt sure Red Fury was the right name, whatever it was it gave him
You didnt list list a points value but having gotten massacred against an anvil killer DE army this is what I've come to the conclusion of how to fight them, Non - tourney style atleast.
2000+ (Mostly for the lord, just because the Slann tends to be something anvil hunters like to want to kill)
Slann (lore of fire to combat Ring of hotec gayness) Gear: War Drum of Xahutec & Cupped hand of the old Ones if you fear the miscast thats required to locate the ring of hotec, I like to BSB the slann just incase but the goal is this unit will never get into combat.
Large unit of TG to go with the Slann. This unit forms the bait, the dark elf player will see this large unit and know we can out combat your saves, and will see a large pool of points that, they think is not very mobile. Basicly this unit is going to move forward one turn make a turn move angled away from his marching blocks, and towards your table edge. Your going to be making a wide turn over the next couple of turns. Constantly March via the wardrum away from his chasing units.
Then this is where the slann's nice rules and Fire come into play, My interpuration of his rules is that him being a large target for LoS puts him on par with a gaint (360 LoS) compared to that of say a stegadon (frontal arc) so if you play where he doesnt have 360 just ignore the fire lore choice and i would go with heavens for second sign. But anyway if you play him as 360 as long as you think your slann is more than 12inches from the ring of hotec, fire off the burning head spell on as many dice as you feel safe with. Reasoning being that burning head doesnt have a target destination therefore ring of hotec wont effect your casting. If he doesnt have hotec just run and cast while your other units do there thing.
Rest of the army: Every rare choice available should be razordons maxed out with 3 razordons and pay the extra for the 4 handler if your worried about shooting. Just circle the enemy stay at max range when they charge stand and shoot if able / forced to, if they are obviously within 5 inches, id take your chances with the flee option. If they have hydras just dont let your razordons gets suckered into the woods and a stand and shoot option from your razors will prolly kill or severly injure a charging hydra (You dont have to distrubt for shooting all attacks are allocated on the hydra(hydra rule)).
Then obviously you have some skink skirmishers to fill your core choices just have them screen for your razors / go hunting for crossbow men / shades.
I also like to put 3-base unit of jungle swarms in each corner of my deployment zone just incase my TG / slann need to get past a unit that tries to cut them off when turning in one of the corners.
Fill out the rest of your army as you see fit, just make sure that your TG / slann unit is the unit the want bad. If they some how get a charge off on your razors, as long as you can stand and shoot, more power to them.
A few other notes:
1. skink skirmishers in groups of 13 are nice because then it 4 kills via range to get a panic test.
2. Chameleon skinks in groups of 5 make excellent screens for your other skinks to get close to enemy ranged units / siege, and they cant cause panic because they are unit strength 5 or less.
3. Hotec is a double edged sword, if he has hotec he wont be able to catch you via spells like the wolf hunts or the unseen lurker. And if he doesnt have hotec your slann should be able to do decent damage while moving away.
4. In a game without a lord I would recommend a scar vet with the drum in your bait unit, TGs or Saurus, and a skink chief bsb with the skaven belt banner, Dangerous yes but the frenzy will give you immune to pyschology benefits, and in the event you have something appear in front of you might as well have that 1 extra attack from frenzy.
Stay alive and Razordons will beat DE's
Last edited by AtomicThief; March 27th, 2009 at 10:28.
My mate plays a Magic / ''Bolt line'' army, which is good, but not impossible to beat lol. The large DE units are just crying out ''shoot me!'' though.. maybe consider a Slann with some large template spell, or something.. Or salamanders, Elves arent known for their armour, they should fall fast enough.
wow, more awesome advice, whats wrong with me... oh well thats why I have you guys, some great slann advice which I will most definitely use, and I always use as many Razordons as possible, most of the time 6, they are awesome in so many ways, although I do want to try salamanders they could have been so helpful in so many situations...
more anti dark elf advice,... excellent
Then this is where the slann's nice rules and Fire come into play, My interpuration of his rules is that him being a large target for LoS puts him on par with a gaint (360 LoS) compared to that of say a stegadon (frontal arc) so if you play where he doesnt have 360 just ignore the fire lore choice and i would go with heavens for second sign. But anyway if you play him as 360 as long as you think your slann is more than 12inches from the ring of hotec, fire off the burning head spell on as many dice as you feel safe with. Reasoning being that burning head doesnt have a target destination therefore ring of hotec wont effect your casting. If he doesnt have hotec just run and cast while your other units do there thing.Slann magic is always a pretty good thing, but especially if you want to curtail the Dark Elf magic, which can be the most offensive magic in the game (ie make your expensive TG hit on 5's or drop them dead without armorsaves, or take initiative tests.) Large target DOES NOT have 360 line of site. He has 90 LOS just like every other monster, and large target. Ring of Hotek works on anything within 12" and on anything targetted on a unit within 12 inches of the ring, so this strategy has some holes. I wouldn't worry about the ring and just cast as normal, esp with the cupped hands, you can rebound those miscast results onto the enemy.
I did have the right idea here for burning head, just for the wrong reasons. Burning head is not a targeted spell, it is one of the few spells in the 8 Lores that is not, more on that in a moment. While I claimed the slann had 360 LoS (which I might feel like arguing over after I investigate into what kind of LoS greater daemons have), the truth is the slann doesn't need 360 LoS. "A spectral flaming skull shoots 18" from the caster in a straight direct path (any direction chosen by the controlling player)" Im sure it could be argued as fuzzy wording but I hate that ring of hotec so much I'll play underhanded against it. Secondly, as to why The Burning Head is not a targeted spell. Compare the wording used against just about ANY other spell in the 8 lores. Every other spell in the 8 lores contains the wording "Cast on" "Cast Upon" "The target suffers...." "Hits the target..." Etc. The only exceptions seem to be The Burning Gaze (Light 1) seems to be missing one of these sets of words, and the 3 or 4 "12 inches around the caster AoE spells", and Second Sign of Amul(heavens 2) which is clearly a non-targeted spell, and obviously The Burning Head.
No large targets have 360 Line of Sight. Read the main rulebook. The slann can see 90 degrees in front of himself and the large target mention is there so he can see over his temple guard. If you use the burning head, you will actually singe or burn at least one of your temple guard.
You can play however you want, but the rules are plainly written and I make a distinction so that the newer players don't get in their heads that all large targets have 360 LoS or get confused by reading the post. Large target means that enemies can spot the large target over other units and vice versa using their normal LoS. If you're wondering what type of LoS a unit has, look under the rules for that particular type of unit. The Slaan would be considered as either a monster or ogre sized unit which still have 90 degree LoS. The rules are the Rules, no matter how you play.
Cupped Hands is probably the best deterent of the ring of hotek. Even when you do miscast, you have a decent chance of rebounding that miscast on the enemy which will either kill his sorceress's or give you another spell make the enemy forget a spell, etc.
Last edited by buckero0; April 8th, 2009 at 18:08.