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Im playing my buddy next week it will be my third time playing ever, he is a long time veteran of 10yrs and has almost a minimum 1500pt list of every army in the Warhammer Fantasy game. Ive decided to go with LM and have enjoyed learning about them. I wanted a solid army not the most powerful but not the weakest either. I have posted both of our lists below and was hoping for some strategies on what to attack first and or how to move my list into battle. My thoughts thoughts this time are to go with Metal spells and Bane Head so that I can use my Slann to just go after his Lords and High Armor Save units with “Rule of burning Iron” (for single target) and “Bane of forged Steel” (for the larger units). The other reason ive decided to go with Metal is because his Black Guard unit just Eats me up. I can’t kill it and it blows over whatever it touches.
His stratagies are:
Sets up with his Repeater Crossbowmen on both sides of the board next to a Reaper. And he just shoots at me all game (obviously) . He then puts all his hardest hitting stuff in the middle of the board and follows his BalckGuard around so that the Ring of Hotek causes me to Mistcast on a large percent of my higher spells (causes me to miscast when I roll any doubles). Which is why im trying to kill the guy first.
Any thoughts on play strategy and army deployment would be greatly appreciated. Also I went with some Terradons and the Skink Chief with Staff of the Lost Sun thinking I would swoop in and attack his Crossbow repeater dudes. This is my first time using Terradons so are there any strategies I should know about them? And who should I drop the rocks on?
Any thoughts on List changes would be accepted as well.
Im not trying to beat the guy, just trying to give him a competitive match.
My LM List 2499
1. Slann (305 pts)
Plaque of Tepok
2. Temp. Guard – Qty: 16 (331 pts)
Sun Standard of Chotec
3. Skink Chief – On Terradon (120 pts)
Staff of the Lost Sun
4. Terradon Rider – Qty:4 (120 pts)
5. Priest-On EotG (355 pts)
Lvl 2 magic user
6. Priest-On EotG (355 pts)
Lvl 2 magic user
7. Salamander (75 pts)
8. Salamander (75 pts)
9. Skinks – Blowpipes – Qty:20 (140pts)
10. Skinks – Blowpipes – Qty:20 (140pts)
11. Skinks – Blowpipes – Qty:19 (140pts)
12. Skinks Qty:10 with a Kroxigor (105 pts)
13. Skinks Qty:10 with a Kroxigor (105 pts)
14. Saurus Warriors Qty:9 w/ champion +Music.+Stand B. (140 pts)
His DE List 2500
1. Dreadlord on Coldone (277 pts)
Sword of Might +1 Strength
Enchanted Shield 5+AS
Pendant of Khaeleth – this is soooo overpowered
Potion of Strength
2. Noble (159 pts)
Armor of darkness
Ring of Hotek
3. Sorceress (150 pts)
Dispell Scrolls x2
4. Death Hag w/ Cauldron of Blood
5. Black Guard Qty: 12 (247 pts)
Tower Master, w/ Soulrender, Banner of Hag Graef
6. Witch Elves of Khain Qty:16 (331 pts)
Rune of Khaine
7. Repeater Crossbow (110 pts)
8. Repeater Crossbow (110 pts)
9. Dark Elf Worriors Qty:17 (166 pts)
Banner of murder
10. Dark Riders Qty:5 (85 pts)
11. Coldone Knights (135 pts)
12. Cold One Chariot (100 pts)
13. War Hydra
14. Reaper (100 pts)
15. Reaper (100 pts)
16. Harpies Qty:5 (55 pts)
It seems like your going for a very magic heavylist with the slann and 2 engens, id really recomend the extra powerdice dicipline for the slann which will just buff up your magic that much more. Also, i dont know waht alot of his magic items do, but base hes got 3 dispel dice and 2 scrolls.. you should absolutely dominate the magic phase, nailing the battle standard bearer first. Or if you wanteed you could try to squeeze in the cupped hands to try and turn one of those miscasts around on his sorceress.
It seems ok to me, i personnaly like more saurus (i have 40 and 20 temple at this lvl) but thats just me.
Death Gaurd: 6/6/2
Warriors of Chaos 3/1/1
Hey welcome to playing the wonderful world of LM! I have been playing them for a little over 3 years and they are by far my favorite army ( I have all the chaos armies, and a brett army too). I haven't played the new Dark Elves and only played them a few time before their new book so commenting on tactics against them would not be really great from me. However, I can give you a few tips on your list....
1. Skink Skirmishing units are way too big. Bring them down to units of 10-12 max. and throw in some units of 10 jav rank and file. Skinks act as screeners, harassers, diverters, and bait and fleers. if you break this up you will have 6 units that the opponent has to deal with instead of just three. Remember Skinks die and instead of giving the opponent 140 VP you only give them 70 with smaller units and he had to address these 70 point units keeping everything else relativly safe. Plus if you were just looking for the 40 poison shots you can have to units of 10 target the same thing. If you need points for your new list look at your Skirmishing units. 3 units of skirmishers and a unit or 2 of jav skinks will work just fine.
2. Saraus Warrior unit is way too small. Bring this up to 18, give them spears, a mus/ standard and against most opponents this unit will last 3 or 4 rounds of combat (i held up a unit of Chaos Knights with this unit for 4 turns of combat). I would also suggest finding room for two 18 SW strong units. two units of these guys and a unit of temple guard give you a strong center for your army.
3. Give the Slann BSB. Only army in the game that can have the general be a BSB. Plus he has leadership 9. pluck his unit in between the SW and you have a center that is hard to crack.
4. Most people do not like the Skink/Krox units but they have a place in my army. Add one more skink to the unit so that you can have 3 ranks and use them as a flanker to the SW blocks. or a tactic that I have been experimenting with use 13 Skinks move up three inches reform so that it is 10 wide so that when something does charge you, you have 10 posion javs as a stand and shoot and a rank for combat, it wont work against the elites but its something sneaky that most opponents arent expecting.
5. I am not sold on the EotG just yet, most opponents know just to pick off the skink priest and it becomes for all purposes an over priced stegadon. think about using a war chief on either a steg or ancient with the steg spear, it gives a lot of bang for your buck. Also consider just running the skink priest solo with a combo (2 out of the 3) of Cloak of Feathers, Rod of Storm, Diadem. If you drop the EotG dont forget to take 1 or 2 stegs, they still rock just not with a priest on the back in my opinion.
6. I love the single sallie units. Suggestion: Maybe beef them up and fire at the rank and file units.
1.Use terrain to your advantage. terradons can fly in and out of forests, nothing else in the game can do this. Fly them in when something gets close enough fly them out, drop rocks, and fly them back in. they hopefully got a great attack off and now are contesting a table quarter. Use hills, forest, etc. to block his bolt throwers and archers LOS from being able to shot at you.
2. From what you described about his tactics is he wants to fight you in the middle. divert his shooting and meet him in the middle with your saraus and temple guard. Be sure to set up the flank charges! If you used spears on your saraus dont fret if he charges you he has to take out 12 guys for you not to get an attack back!
There is obviously a little more to discuss (for instance what needs to be on your slann) but youve got some things to think about with this . Hope this helped!
So our battle ended up happening on Sat. evening and it went OK. I started off as planned, using my Slann as a "Hunter/Char. Killer". I placed Bane Head on his Noble (grouped with his Blackguard) the one with the Ring of Hotek (which makes any double i roll a mis-cast) and then casted Rule of Burning Iron, it dropped him and with him all his magic resistance. After that I used a combination of Bane Forged Steel and Comet of Cosandora to take out half his Blackguard, 2/3's of his Cold One Knights and six of his dark elf warriors. So things where looking good. After that I made a bunch of NEWB deployment errors and ended up losing my entire unit of terradons, EoG (failed panic check when terradons where killed) and a Skink/Krocx unit (failed panic check when terradons where killed) on a couple of bad Leadership checks. After that in Round 2 i got REALLY unlucky and rolled snake eyes on the first spell of the magic round which stopped the magic round for that phase (which IMAO lost the game for me). I had fun but still need to work on deployment and fighting the right stuff. I still am not using my Skinks Skirmishers very well. All they do is end up doing is attacking with a (-3) to hit (moving, more than half, and something else…not sure) and then dying (but for all I know that is what they are supposed to do).
I did end up making some suggested changes to my list. I only had (1) EoG and traded the other out for SW (2-units of 17). And beefed up my Salamanders to have (2) ea. So I had a total of (4).
It was a lot closer of a match but I still have a lot to learn. My biggest struggle now is Combat resolution. I have to figure out when to and NOT to attack. I had a whole unit of SW that lost 6 in the opening of an attack. Failed to retaliate and ended up losing the CR by 8. So they fled and got hunted down…Frustrating, how can 11 guys flee!
1. AFter i killed his Nobel at the begining I tried to use the same thing on his Lord but he said that the "Look out Sir" rule would apply to that spell (Rule of Burning Iron) is this true? Because if it is that rule sucks! I mean the spell says target "One Model". I told him i don't buy it. But in the end i had to concede until we had some further opinions/understanding. Any thoughts? He is saying i can only target a single model if it is running solo, not in a Unit.
Thanks for all your comments.
Hello and welcome to the jungle. Seems you had an enjoyable game even though you lost. I will point out a couple of things from your post.
First, EotG is immune to psychology so doesn't have to take panic tests. Skinks with blowguns don't have to double tap. If you find you move and are still at long range, just shoot once with each so poison works.
As for your question, rule of burning iron can target characters in units. Point out the spell description, "no targeting restrictions apply." Then have him read the look out sir rules. They apply to warmachines, breath weapons and anything with a template attack. Rule of burning iron doesn't fall into any of these categories, so the rule doesn't apply.
I am right 94% of the time, why worry about the other 3%.
I just want to point out a couple of things here:
Your EOG is ItP meaning it dose not have to take panic checks:
If this is a friendly game, and you get into an argument, don’t be afraid to look up the rule, if it sounds like BS it probably is.
Edit: Sorry for the double answer sirkently beat me to the punch as I was typing.
Last edited by bncrawler; July 21st, 2009 at 00:30. Reason: Question was already answered
Actually thanks for the double answer. I need all the ammo i can get. And Ya if I go Magic heavy again i will definetly go for the Cupped Hands of the Old Ones.
Last edited by jt76; July 20th, 2009 at 23:07.
Cupped hands is a must for any Slann. My Slann never leaves the jungle without his. It's absolutely devasting to those armies with their own miscast tables (ie O&G and Ogres)...
also, try out a skink chief on an ancient steg with the war spear. Cast portent of far from your skink priest on it after it's charged into a block unit, and that unit is good as gone. 2d6+1 impact hits, re-rolling 1's on the to-wounds.... what's not to love....
I agree with some of the others.... more SW (mine is one unit of 24, 6x4), make your Slann your BSB also, and sallies are deadly to any block units with tough 3...
and you might want to consolidate the two skink block units..... 16 skinks with 2 kroxs and full command is around 210 pts.... with a static combat res of at least +4, +5 if you outnumber, which you should)... I'm a big fan of this unit....
sounds like you just need more games under your belt. It may take several games before you truly understand all the nuances of the game. Keep reading the rulebook, your army book and his army book and then you'll master those 2 armies and the regular rules (which gives you a tactical understanding of the game) then you'll only have 14 more armies to master!
I like all the ideas that have been comming. I really like the consolidating of the skinks and Krox into a single unit, that should help with some of my combat res. problems (giving my Krox the opportutnity to punch back).
Ive been messing around with an Old Blood on a Carnisour and giving him the sheild that gives and extra attack and then the sword that requires the apponent to make a leadership (un-modified) check or Die! he seems like he would just eat up other lords and big beasty units. Any thoughts on that?