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Firstly I apologise for starting "another" how do I deal with a such and such unit, but for this one I really have no ideas...
I will soon be playing my friend, he has told me that he is using the unit as he is supremely confident of its ability to beat me regardless of what I use against it. The Unit:
50 plague monks with the Storm banner, Full command
Pushing a furnace with a Plague Priest, level 2, Plague censer, Rival hide talisman, Plague banner,
Storm banner (one use) can be activated at the start of any players turn, No "flying" moves can be made, all shooting is at -2 to hit and magic missiles must roll 4+ before they can fire, at the start of each players subsequent turn roll a D6, on a 4+ the banner's effects end.
Rival hide talisman (one use) can make a single enemy model re-roll successful to hit rolls for the duration of the turn it is activated.
Plague banner (one use) allows all plague monks to re-roll failed to hit and to wound rolls for the duration of the turn it is activated.
I am boggled.
The total cost of all of the above is 771 points, almost half of our 2000 point limit. His lord will probably be a magically defensive grey seer as I know he favours it.
How should I go about killing this Cheese-Furnace???
Is it ITP?
Well, your going to have to consider what your options are.
That is a lot of magical defense there, and while you have the option of going magical strong and essentially turn this into a game of "Whomever the gods of the dice smile upon, wins".
Or you can go away from a magical heavy army. If you can maneuver properly, you can easily hit this guy from three different flanks if you take an Saurus-strong army, the fact of it is if you hit him in the flanks you take away the LD bonus Skaven need to survive. You won't have to worry about WarpfireThrower/Ratling gun teams, just censer bearers (if they still have them in 7th edition), so in theory, a combined infantry attack could be effective.
If you use a huge unit of Saurus or TG, in theory even if charged if you are using spears you should be able to withstand it, especially if you have good leadership. If you can flank him with a Stegadon and hit him in the rear with chameleon skinks or terradon riders.
Another way to damage it would be to flank hit it and hit it with Salamanders as well ,as that will take out his Rank bonus first and then a panic check.
Yeah, I can't think of anything I wouldn't want 6 salamanders shooting at more than this unit.
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What else is this guy going to have in his army list, based on what he has in in his inventory? I mean, 1/3 of his army is tied up in this unit including the grey seer?
He's confident that 1/3 of his army is in a frenzy unit?
put 10 skinks ( doesn't even need to be skirmishers ) in front of it. Let that huge block frenzycharge the skinks and flee. You can lead it on a merry chase after those skinks for a few turns, or you can throw a unit of templeguard into the flank. 15 to 20 with scar veteran should suffice. These monks are unbreakable due to the furnace so it will take a long time, and if you attack him in the front he will eventually grind you down with his ridiculously huge unit.
I think that 10 templeguard with warbanner in the flank could keep that unit busy for an incredibly long time. 10 ws4 str 4 attacks. 5 hit, 2-3 wound. That's: banner, warbanner, flank, 2-3 kills vs banner and outnumber, maybe 1 kill. You can tie those 700 pts up for the entire game while the rest of your army ( around 1800 pts ) wipes the rest of his units off the field.
Investing so many points into a frenzied unit can make it an enormous liability. They are frenzied so immune to psychology, and unbreakable ( laaaaame ) , but if they are running after 10 skinks the can't do anything.
correct me if I am wrong, but if you defeat them in a round of combat, they lose their frenzy AND ITP at that moment, right?
That seems to be the ticket, you have to hit this unit with the biggest hit ever in the front and flanks and rear if possible. If you hit them on that many fronts you have a chance.
If you take the banner that grants fear, it is possible that if you beat them and if you have the biggest unit ever there, that you can outnumber them eventually and auto-break them if you do it right.
This means as big a unit of Temple Gaurd as has ever been sent out (30 is the max, right?). With our without a Slann.
remember that if you have a scar veteran, that this unit almost certainly would have an Assassin in it (or can Assassins be in PlagueMonk units?) to go after it so be weary.
Edit- I think I have found a way to counter this with cheese of your own
I'm assuming this is a 2000 point battle so you get 1 lord character.
use a Saurus Old Blood.
Give him the Blade of Realities and the Carnosaur Pendant- you can put him on a coldone, carnosaur, or put him in a unit of temple guard.
Either way, your attacks, if they hit, the enemy has to roll against (the Blade of Realities is clear here) their own unmodified leadership, which cancels out their rank bonus leadership. Which means they are going to be rolling against 5 LD here. If you get a single wound you immediately frenzy for the rest of the game.
So in theory, you do this, your Oldblood will then proceed to rip apart this unit in straight up combat. If you go at him head to head with a HUGE unit of Temple Gaurd or Saurus he may think you are insane to go head to head with it and won't try anything to draw it out.
If he is on a cold one or carnosaur, you can do this in a flanking manuever.
the only thing to fear is a Clan Eshin Assassin (assuming they can conceal in a Plague Monk unit).
Last edited by GMJoeSolarte; March 7th, 2010 at 02:31.
Also, after reading through the skaven rulebook on plague furnaces, apparently priests on plague furnaces cannot refuse challenges, therefore, would this be a decent idea?:
Tooled up skink assassin designed to take out the plague priest challenges him fast and takes him out (thus removing their unbreakable rule). plague monks tear skink chief apart. 2 units of 3 salamanders mass fire on the unit forcing it to take panic checks without the skink priest's leadership.
Critcism and other ideas are appreciated
Monks pushing the plague furnace are unbreakable.
If the plaguefurnace has but a single wound left they will remain unbreakable. If they lose a round of combat they may lose their frenzy, but they are still unbreakable and therefor still ItP. Attacking this thing from the front will mean that you will need to fight a unit with a huge frontage, something like 10 wide or more, and your saurus will have to be taking toughness tests the entire time because they are in base contact with the plaguefurnace. The plague priest doesn't really matter. He isn't extremely tough in combat, and wether he is alive or not the monks stay unbreakable.
Frenzy bait is the thing. You will not even need to match the points he spent on this cheese unit to beat it. About 350 pts for a nice 20 strong TG unit, 100 or so for pretty bare scar vet, and 50 - 70 for the skinks. Frenzy bait it, charge TG in the flank and watch with glee as your TG keep winning on static combat res alone, while making half a dozen kills every round as well.
The rest of your army can clean up the remaining skaven.
Ah yes... Bang goes my tactic
the word furnace is above the word priest in the book I must have some kind of dyslexia or summat, thanks for spotting that
only problem with the temple guard unit idea is that I only have 10 painted up ready to fight... I usually solo my slann when I take him, I guess I'll have to paint another 10 this week! Damn deadlines...