No rush buddy
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No rush buddy
Yep sorry my mistake, they are WS3. But still... 10 WS2 attacks are better than the 2 WS6 attacks (if you get my drift).
About the 'slow' part you list it as a disadvantage, but I don't really think it is one. True they are slower then Skinks so skinks have a benefit over Saurus, but no the other way around. The M4 doesn't make the unit worse in my opinion because its just the standard movement. And because of their T4 and SS 5+ they should be slower then some T3 nimble elfs (or warhorses with 4 legs for that matter). But since this is a based on oppinions I will let you decide, its your tactica after all!
And about the next sections, take your time Its like good whiskey the more time put into it, the better it tastes!
Regarding the scar vet builds - in a couple of them you note a great weapon and a shield... and then talk on the armour saves and attack values in the same turn... correct me if I'm wrong, but if you're using the great weapon in close combat - you have to stay with it the duration of the combat. Which means you lose the armor from the shield yes? And if you choose the hand weapon/shield combo - you'd lose the str on the attacks? The choice as to when you'd want to use them may be relevant to that section of the tactica.
I agree, it should state when and under what conditions the scar-vet recieves his armour save.
Also I have not heard any confirmations on whether everyone is happy with the skink skirmishes?
OK - I will revise the section about the shield save to include something like the following: "Taking the shield allows you to choose whether to go HW/shield in close combat (max save) or to use the great weapon for max strength. Also, the shield provides an additional +1 against shooting attacks".
@ TheGuiding - drift caught! Definately more attacks is better. I suppose the usage of the saurus will likely depend on the general's playstyle. LM are such a flexible army when it comes to composition.
I will clarify the sections when I post my new sections. Also, I am fine with the skink skirmishers post.
Changed Skink Skirmishes to complete, if anyone has any issues with it in the future just let me know, ty
Here is the revised Saurus & Scar Vet Posts: Please make sure they are up to snuff. Someone needs to keep me on my toes!
1. 1.1.1. Saurus Warriors
o High base strength and toughness compared to normal troops
o Two attacks each
o Can be equipped with spears (fight in two ranks)
o Excellent base armor save for cost
o Terrible Initiative (1)
o Average WS
Saurus Warriors are excellent core troops and the premier combat troops of the Lizardmen army. If you intend on playing a combat oriented list, these guys are your bread and butter. Your goal should be to get these guys into combat as soon as possible. With a base toughness of 4 they can even withstand charges from most enemy units and still win close combat due to their cold-blooded resiliency.
Always take spears. Let me say that again. Always take spears. For one measly additional point per model, you can equip your warriors with spears giving them the ability to fight in two ranks to the front. That’s at least 10 additional strength 4 attacks in close combat. The downside is you forfeit any potential armor save parry bonus you would receive in close combat (spears do not count as “hand weapons”)
Saurus should be run in units either 5 or 6 wide. The most common formations are 2x6, 3x6, and 4x5. The first two formations are cheaper and give you the additional frontage for more attacks, while the 4x5 gives you the extra rank bonus. Most generals will field units 3x6 because it gives you four additional attacks and still gives you a +2 rank bonus. That formation also allows the unit to suffer a casualty due to shooting/magic before losing the rank bonus for the rear rank.
Example: A 3x6 unit of saurus with spears will dish out 24 str 4 attacks with a 4+ armor save (scaly skin + shield). All for 216 base points.
Saurus command models are not necessary to make this unit a formidable force. A champion should only be taken if a character joins the unit, to accept unwanted challenges. A standard bearer and musician aren’t necessary since the unit is cold blooded it will likely pass any low CR break tests anyway.
Anvil Unit: Since the unit only moves 4” (charge 8”) it may be hard to get the charge off on most enemies. Also, charging negates the advantage of using spears. Therefore, the saurus warriors should be positioned to receive favorable frontal charges and count on the huge number of attacks back to win or neutralize the combat, holding up the enemy troops while units like Cold One Calvary or Stegadons charge the flanks. The benefit that Saurus warriors have over other army’s anvil choices is that Saurus also pack a punch on the charge. If you have a favorable charge opportunity…charge with them! Your 6 wide anvil could be dishing out 12 S4 attacks in this case. Also, because you charge (spears are no advantage) you can choose to charge in with hand weapons, which would allow you to have a 3+ armor save (5+ Scaly Skin, HW, shield).
Flank Protection: Units of Saurus Warriors deployed on the flank will seriously deter your opponent from making flank advances.
1. 1.1.1. Saurus Scar Vet
o High base strength and toughness
o Relatively cheap base starting point cost
o Good selection of magic items
o Ability to get impressive armor save
o Ability to carry BSB (without item restrictions)
o Average Initiative of 3
o Average WS for hero level character
o Average Leadership for hero level character
Unless substituting a piece of magic equipment, the scar-vet should always be equipped with a great weapon, light armor, and shield. For under 100 points (before magic items), this base setup gives the scar-vet the option of four strength 7 attacks (with a 5+ save) or four strength 5 attacks with a 3+ save. If taken on foot, the scar-vet is best placed in a unit of Saurus Warriors or Temple Guard. If mounted on a cold one, it is recommended to have in either in a unit of Cold One Calvary or a unit of Saurus Warriors.
The scar-vet is a beast in close combat and your goal should be to get him into combat as soon as possible.
Chariot Buster: The scar-vet has a base strength of 5, so when using a great weapon is able to achieve strength 7. Use the Charm of the Jaguar Warrior (enchanted item) to make a surprise fly-charge into a chariot and with 4 attacks at strength 7 one is bound to get through. With light armor, shield, great weapon, and Charm of Jaguar Warrior (must be taken on foot); the scar-vet can potentially charge the chariot on turn two.
Character Assassin: The scar-vet can be a decent character assassin. He is very survivable in challenges and his high strength attacks will reduce even the strongest armor saves. Realistically, the scar-vet needs a cold one mount or Charm of the Jaguar Warrior to get the charge on enemy characters.
Can Opener: The scar-vet is a powerhouse against most armies core RnF troops. Position him in the flanks to maximize damage and reduce the number of attacks back. The scar-vet can get as many as 6 strength 5 attacks when kitted as a can-opener.
Mount Tactics & Principles
Cold One: The only mount option for the Scar-Veteran is the Cold One. The CO provides an impressive +2 to the scar-vet’s armor save and provides an additional strength 4 attack. However, the cold one is stupid so you will have to make a cold-blooded Ld 8 stupidity test at the beginning of every turn. Most players find that the +2 AS modifier outweighs an unlikely failed Ld test, but that is personal preference and depends on what style of scar-vet you want.
Kit Builds and Magic Items:
Whether or not the enchanted shield is available as a magic item choice for your scar-vet depends on whether you are using a Slann or Old-Blood for your lord choice. I have assumed that the enchanted shield is available for these builds:
Chariot Buster Scar-Vet:
Great Weapon, Light Armor, enchanted shield, Charm of Jaguar Warrior – total cost 136 points. This guy dishes out four strength 7 attacks with toughness 5 and a 4+ armor save. The armor save is 2+ against shooting and can be 1+ in close combat if you choose to use HW (although that defeats the purpose of attacking the chariot).
Great Weapon, LA, shield, Charm of JW, talisman of protection – This build is slightly different as it gives the scar-vet a potential 3+ armor save (if using HW/shield, otherwise a 5+) with a 6+ ward. Depends on whether you expect to face attacks that have the killing blow special rule or negate armor.
Character Assassin Scar-Vet:
Either of the builds above work well against characters too, but just make sure that the opponent has used his dispel dice before using the Charm.
Cold One, LA, shield, sword of might, glyph necklace – this guy dishes out four strength 6 attacks with a 1+ AS and 5+ Ward (plus the cold one’s attack). He is very survivable in challenges.
Can Opener Scar-Vet:
Either of the builds above work well against rank and file troops, but if you want more attacks consider this build: Cold One, LA, sword of battle, maiming shield – this guy dishes out six strength 5 attacks (plus the cold one).
Other useful magic items to consider for your scar vet include the Venom of Firefly Frog (makes mundane weapons poisonous), burning blade of Chotec (flaming attacks, additional -2 to armor save), and carnosaur pendant (makes wearer permanently frenzy after inflicting a wound).
Can someone please double check the armor saves I've listed? I don't have the book in front of me and I don't remember if the scar-vet has a 4+ or 5+ scaly skin - maybe I'm mixing him up with the old-blood.
The 3+ should be changed to a 2+ if using hand weapon and shield Everything else looks A.O.KGreat Weapon, LA, shield, Charm of JW, talisman of protection – This build is slightly different as it gives the scar-vet a potential 3+ armor save (if using HW/shield, otherwise a 5+) with a 6+ ward. Depends on whether you expect to face attacks that have the killing blow special rule or negate armor.
Just one measely little thingy, I wouldnt mention the exact point cost. If a mod or someone from GWS-legal sees that, then the post will be deleted and LO will have a problem.
Because you can actually deduct the point cost per model from this "sum up" if you know the amount of models and the point cost for the spears (which is mentioned earlier). So I would change this:
That will make it impossible to deduct the actuall per model point cost. And will therefor not step on anyones toes! GWS could close up shop if you can get all the point costs from the WWWExample: A 3x6 unit of saurus with spears will dish out 24 str 4 attacks with a 4+ armor save (scaly skin + shield). All for around 200 points.
Ow and I just spotted this:
I gues you forgot to name the second "how to kit the scar vet" build.choose to use HW (although that defeats the purpose of attacking the chariot).
<--! no name for the next build? --!>
Great Weapon, LA, shield, Charm of JW, talisman of protection – This build is slightly different as it gives the scar-vet a potential
Last edited by TheGuiding; March 27th, 2010 at 01:19.