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  1. #1
    Member Beardy Bearderson's Avatar
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    Defensive style of play?

    Could a defensive Lizardmen list work? I was thinking like a WoC footslogging list. ie. Lots of units of 12 or 18 strong Saurus Warriors with shields and spears, 2 large units of Temple Guard (one to house a Slaan) and a few Skink priests with Lore of Heavens to support my large killy blocks.

    I don't have the codex...yet. So I have a few questions about this list:

    1. i've heard that the Slann can take a magic standard, is this true? and can he have access to all of them? otherwise ill just take a Scar Vet. BSB.

    2. is there a particular magic banner that any of you Lizardmen vets would take specifically to benefit this army's playstyle? I know with my WoC the Banner of the Gods is a must-have in a defensive footslogging list.

    3. To keep this list in theme I wouldn't be taking any Stegadons *gasp* I know. nor would I take any Saurus Cavalry. So, given these limitations what would you Lizardmen Oldblood recoomend I stock up on to support my hard as nails infantry blocks?

    4. with these types of lists the biggest problem becomes getting to grips with your foes in melee and with an unmodified movement characteristic of 4 for the majority of my army this could be tricky (but also allows for a point denial situation, if I manage to kill of all of my opponent's range support) any suggestions here? Would Terradons, skinks and to a lesser extent sallies and razordons do the trick here?

    5. How would straight up Kroxigor units fair in a list like this, I was thinking once the enemy gets stuck in with my saurus I could use the Kroxigor to flank around and negate the enemy's rank bonus... using them as a hammer unit. is this a viable option? do they have enough movement to get behind a ranked unit in combat and charge said unit in one turn?

    6. How useful would swarms be in this list, never played against them and i've never played any army that had access to swarms, so I don't really have a clue what they would bring to the table?

    7. last question: If I were to give my Slann Mage Priest Lore of Heavens would he be able to shoot forked lightning and thunderbolt at any enemy unit on the table at any time because he is on his Palanquin and therefore sits above the Temple Guard unit carrying him into battle?

    If all of my questions are answered and this turns out to be a viable way to win with the Lizzies then I'll end up buying the codex and starting my force!

    thanks for reading: Beardy Bearderson.

    Last edited by Beardy Bearderson; April 1st, 2010 at 06:31. Reason: formatting issues :)

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  3. #2
    Son of LO Phaeron Typhoon's Avatar
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    I play a defensive style slann list myself. My army comp is different from yours and lately I am trying more of a balanced approach but it does work. Obviously you need to go magic heavy so that you can do enough damage at range that your opponent is forced to come to you. I would suggest only ever taking temple guard if a slann is going in them, so I wouldnt take two units in a list with only one slann.

    As for your first question, yes the slann can be both BSB and general, so has access to all magic standards. The sun standard of chotec is a decent defensive banner as it makes it harder for ranged units to hit your slann and the unit he is with. Our most expensive banner just makes the unit cause fear, so lizardmen unfortunately dont have any of those 100-125 pt uber banners that some other armies have.

    As for your second question, I wouldn't discount cold one cavalry. They still work well in a defensive list as flankers (like how you want to use kroxigor) and are in my opinion quite a bit better than kroxigor. 5 cold one riders are only 10 pts more than 3 kroxigor. They also add just a little bit of flexibility in case you run into an army that defensive lists dont fare so well against, like wood elves or gunlines where some speed could prove helpfull.

    Teradons would be a good bet to take out enemy warmachines and to harrass stuff, wihile sallies are quite good at taking out cav (especially light cav) that could prove very annoying to a slow moving army. A couple Skink Skirmisher screens could prove useful in protecting your expensive stuff from enemy fire while you take out their ranged.

    Like I said above, I think cold one riders are a better deal than kroxigor, and can be used in basically the same way.

    he counts as a large target for line of sight purposes when in temple guard, so he would be able to see over enemy units to cast spells.
    Last edited by Phaeron Typhoon; April 1st, 2010 at 06:39.
    "I am the architect of fate!"

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    Member Beardy Bearderson's Avatar
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    excellent stuff, but why would you not field a unit of Temple Guard without a Slann? aren't they beast in combat... even better then regular saurus? no area of effect banner huh? thats a crying shame, but Lizzies have pretty good leadership with cold-blooded right, so a banner like Banner of the Gods isn't so much needed in a Lizardmen book?

    I just like the Kroxigor models and fluff better than the Saurus cavalry, not sure what to do now :s
    Last edited by Beardy Bearderson; April 1st, 2010 at 06:48.

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    Son of LO Phaeron Typhoon's Avatar
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    Temple guard are quite good, but a good portion of what you are paying for is the abilities they get when protecting a mage priest. So without the mage priest your paying a whole lot more points for a unit that is arguably not much better (if at all better) than a unit of saurus warriors with spears. With the saurus you get 1 less armor save and slightly worse WS, but you get twice as many attacks with the spears.

    Cold Blooded is definitely awesome and is a huge reason why I like my lizardmen so much.

    As for kroxigor versus suarus cavalry, use whichever you want. Both will work in the role you want for them. I just personally think that you get more with the cavalry.
    Last edited by Phaeron Typhoon; April 1st, 2010 at 07:27.
    "I am the architect of fate!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beardy Bearderson View Post
    Could a defensive Lizardmen list work? I was thinking like a WoC footslogging list. ie. Lots of units of 12 or 18 strong Saurus Warriors with shields and spears, 2 large units of Temple Guard (one to house a Slaan) and a few Skink priests with Lore of Heavens to support my large killy blocks.

    I don't have the codex...yet. So I have a few questions about this list:

    1. i've heard that the Slann can take a magic standard, is this true? and can he have access to all of them? otherwise ill just take a Scar Vet. BSB.
    Yes, the Slann can take a magic standard but he does have to pay the upgrade price not only for the standard but also to be the Army Standard Bearer (which he becomes as well as general). But the magic standard does not count against his magic point allotment.

    2. is there a particular magic banner that any of you Lizardmen vets would take specifically to benefit this army's playstyle? I know with my WoC the Banner of the Gods is a must-have in a defensive footslogging list.
    As always, it depends entirely on whether you are going in blind/making a 'take on all comers' army or if you know in advance what army your opponent will be playing with. From there, it becomes a matter of if you want a banner that increases your Temple Guards ability to do better in CC; do you want something anti-magic in nature; etc, etc. Remember that you have to take into consideration what disciplines your going to give your Slann as well.

    3. To keep this list in theme I wouldn't be taking any Stegadons *gasp* I know. nor would I take any Saurus Cavalry. So, given these limitations what would you Lizardmen Oldblood recoomend I stock up on to support my hard as nails infantry blocks?
    well for one, if you are playing defense, remember that A) use the Slann; you should still have an EOTG if you are going to have any Skink Priests in your army....it essentially can bump them up to level 3 wizard ability for dice purposes. Not only do you get the magic, but if you are playing defense anyway, having a ancient steggie on the flank ready to counter flank any approaching army would definitely be weary of. Especially if you wish to counter charge his advance.

    4. with these types of lists the biggest problem becomes getting to grips with your foes in melee and with an unmodified movement characteristic of 4 for the majority of my army this could be tricky (but also allows for a point denial situation, if I manage to kill of all of my opponent's range support) any suggestions here? Would Terradons, skinks and to a lesser extent sallies and razordons do the trick here?
    Well if you are going to play defense then you probably WANT his troops to advance. Now, he is not going to advance on you (depending on whom it is of course) if you have huge blocks of Temple Guards and Saurus Warriors waiting for you to come to them. But he almost certainly will advance if there is nothing but skinks in your listing, which is why you should probably go with them a lot in order to both stay back and to draw him in in the first place. To counter his shooting, well, it depends on what army he is using, but if he is a shooty type army and see's saurus, the odds tell him that between the high T and high AS that he will need, shooting may not be the best option (unless it is wood elves, for example). If the enemy has a lot of war machines, then you need to neutralize them as much as possible....if it is an army that your terradon riders can defeat in CC (for example, Greenskin WM's thru Empire) then use Terrardons. If it is something that has a really good wm crew defenders, like hte empire sometimes do and the dwarves always, then chameleon skinks may be better.

    5. How would straight up Kroxigor units fair in a list like this, I was thinking once the enemy gets stuck in with my saurus I could use the Kroxigor to flank around and negate the enemy's rank bonus... using them as a hammer unit. is this a viable option? do they have enough movement to get behind a ranked unit in combat and charge said unit in one turn?
    Well, to draw him in, if he see's lots of skink blocks, as long as you only have 1 or 2 krox's in these huge skink blocks, that might not be enough to deter him from advancing, which sounds like it is what you want

    6. How useful would swarms be in this list, never played against them and i've never played any army that had access to swarms, so I don't really have a clue what they would bring to the table?
    if you TRUELY have some good ranged attacks (ie, Salamanders, razordons, magic) then a swarm would do really well if you can tie up an enemy for a round or two. The swarms don't block LOS so you could continue to rain in the firepower on the opponent.

    7. last question: If I were to give my Slann Mage Priest Lore of Heavens would he be able to shoot forked lightning and thunderbolt at any enemy unit on the table at any time because he is on his Palanquin and therefore sits above the Temple Guard unit carrying him into battle?
    he would be able to shoot over anything that is not a large target within range of his magic. So yes, you could use the Slann in this capacity. As long as there is not a Steggie to his front you are good.


    If all of my questions are answered and this turns out to be a viable way to win with the Lizzies then I'll end up buying the codex and starting my force!

    thanks for reading: Beardy Bearderson.
    Just remember that I really don't view the LM as a defensive army. they are probably better on the march.

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