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I've beeen playing my first 3 games in a very long time and lost all 3. It all comes down to getting charged and overrun all the time and simply being out manovoured by small hard hitting units. I' ve Been playing to games VS beastmen and one and against Chaos.
My 18 sauruser cant hold charges aganst minetaurs, and knights, and im not sure how to counter these fast units. another problem i find it hard to get a charge in at all as opponent often flee and leaves me open for a new charge. So.. Well a few basic wellput words on moving charges and countering charge reactions would be most welcome.
my list I've been playing with is this.
Lord on carno
2x 18 sauruser banner champ
2 x13 skink skirmisher pipes
6 Cold Ones full command
lvl 2 priest on foot.
EotG +lvl 2 priest.
I guess you where playing 1500pts battles?
If you have problems with your flanks, you could think about gettin some razordons. They will hold up all the enemy flanking units for at least a turn! So that will get you the time to reposition your units.
I would also cut down your skink units to 10, and your saurus blocks to 15. If you give the saurus spears, well then all the charges coming from the front will face 20attacks. So even if they get to kill 5 you still have 10 attacks left!
The skinks are there to counter the fast units, most of the time just running around enemies shooting them with the blowpipes is enough to kill them off. Ive never played the new beastmen though, so im not sure what their statline is.
If they often try to flee to get your units into bad situations, try to get multiple units up there and get as close as you can. Being charged shouldnt be a big problem for a saurus unit... But again Ive never seen the statline of beastmen. Or use the ColdOnes with he charge banner, to get to charge the flanking unit before it can hit your saurus.
So my advice is: Get more presure onto the enemy. Dont go ahead with a single block, take two blocks instead. And make sure that the second one has the flanks of the first one covered. Oh and you might want to consider dropping the EOTG and replace it with a normal steggie and a scar vet for more hitting power.
We played 2250p and my sauruser do ahve spears.
I got the flanks covered fine with kroxigors, cold ones Lord and terradons. The problem is to keep control of the center when opponent fields fast and hard hitting units their, and still is fast on the flanks. Skinks wont kill much from stand and shooting, and if they get destroyed opponent may continue his charge into the next unit (sauruser..). Would small skink units of 10 work to block chargelanes place them with an ankle so they will charge "away" from the sauruser if they destroy or overrun the skinks? beastmen has alot of units, they do get units in from the side and in your back in turn 1-2. they got 3 hard hitting units becourse of hatred and frenzy + fear. Knights, minetaurs and gorgon/Giant. knights is speed 7 and the other 2 6. not sure if minetaurs is 7 also. Fact was that in the first game 4 minetaurs wrecked 18 sauruser with 9 kills, and his knights did in the other saurus regiment on there charge as well. the dice might have been sligtly against me but still?
I will try to put more pressure on him next time. although it is hard to do when he has almost 1½ vs 1 unit and a slugthorn to mess it even more up.
Unless your skinks are ranked they won't re-direct chargers. Skirmishers line up towards the chargers. Units of ten are fine.
Those fleeing units can be discouraged by landing your terradons behind them. They have enough US to destroy them.
I'd drop the full command on the Cold Ones plus perhaps one rider to free up points for maybe some more terradons or Saurus.
Unless these guys are magic heavy one skink should be enough especially with the diadem of power. I like the idea of dropping the EOTG for perhaps the blow guns or Bolt thrower. Instead of a Scar vet, how about the skink chief with the Steg Spear?
How wide are your saurus? Even if I lose a rank I like running them at 6 jsut to get more hits in. Also, I know Kroxigors hit hard, but 3 saurus blocks might serve you better as long as you can keep the lord on the Carnie in the right place!
Hmm, I forgot about the kroxigor... Wouldnt they serve better as a support to the saurus then as a flank protector?
Whats the LD of beastmen?
I like the steggie with chief and spear build, it should be pretty effective against most enemies. The blowpipes should get some wounds on his minotaurs... but im not sure on how to take them down. Is there a way for you to intercept the fast movers with your Cold ones? That should take a bit of the punch of....
Other than this I cant help, i wasnt there to see how things went...
Well the trick is i like to take on the charges if possible, or simply re-direct them in a better direction. But what units do you use for that? 10 skinks in ranks, skirmishers, Terradons or others? So far I've ended up being charged overrun, charged next unit and overrun again...
My mission with magic is simply to kill the magic phase as fast as possible. Yes i use the diadem for power for that along with 3 dispell scrolls. I am consindering a Scar vet with battle standard and Plague of Dominion to futher disturb the magic phase, along with the Curse Charm of Tepok. He would be standing in a 17 saurus unit with the sword of Hornet (strike first). This would be my "new" core unit.
I like the EotG becourse of the cool magic it does + it grands me an extra dispell dice with the lvl 2 priest in it.
I know that a unit of Sauruser would be better in more ways apart from the Kroxigor. I just like the Kroxigor models and what they bring so they are staying for now as I love to play with different units, instead of 2 of this and 2 of that.
Beastmen LD is about 6-7 and 9 on the lord.
My Cold Ones do great with the charge banner and I usual use them on the flank, they can even team up with with my Lord and be a even nastier unit. Those work.
Well, if you want to receive chargers what about Saurus with hand weapons instead of the spears? I know you'll be missing out on extra attacks, but will the extra AC for the HW+shield combo be any help? For redirecting of charges Terradons seem the best bet since enemy units will be wheeling towards them(unlike Skink Skirmishers) and they can most likely get away with there 3d6 flee move. I like 2 units.
What kind of AC do these beastmen have? Massed skinks double-tapping their blowguns on a stand and shoot might do the trick in isolated areas.
Im not sure the improved save will do enough to win me the combat. I know it depends on who is charging me, but i like the way extra attacks better - Might be wrong chosing this option.
I will try to use the terradons for that after dropping rocks.
AC? Area control? don't know what you consider to be a unit for area control. units with high move? then it is knights and minetaurs. And they got ambushers...
I'm no master at movement, but I do have one suggestion you could try. I've had success with putting two infantry units lined up a little ways apart. I leave a gap just to small for a standard five wide unit to get through. In the center of the gap I put the stegadon, but slightly behind the infantry front line. If done right the enemy won't be able to charge your stegadon, but the stegadon will have line of sight and be able to charge most things in front of your saurus. I like to think of it as a stegadon-catapult, any unit that wants to charge your infantry now has to worry about the stegadon coming form the middle, and your flank guards on the side. He'll have to stay very meticulous or risk a devastating counter.
What's wrong with you people?!? Better yet what's right cause I'm all that's left!
Dinesen I think Palos meant AS not AC.
Another great thing about redirecting with the terradons is the feigned flight move they can use, because of their hit and run thing. This makes them able to (if you can rally them) move in the same turn as you rally them. Which mean that fleeing doesnt has a negative side for these beasties.
A little trick I use is setting my skirmishers in front of my saurus, but not completely covering the saurus LoS. The if the skirmishers are charged, they will flee leaving the enemy half the distance and in front of your saurus! Giving you the oppertunity to cause havoc among his troops
Another tip: Do as he does, set up a 'easy' unit in the middle that is can be get to easily. Then set up a good strong flanking unit (like kroxigor) somewhere were it can charge the enemy if it has charged the easy unit, but keeping them out of the charge range/ LoS of that enemy.
And the only extra tip, next to that from Fwishin, is that you should really try and pick your combats. If not moving mean you will get a charge on a more juicy enemy. Do so. Move back if that is required!