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Topic of the Week - Salamander and Razordon Hunting Packs
This is the start of a new series, that will hopefully bring new ideas and tactics to the forums. Each week, a new topic will be posted up about a different unit in the army book. This gives you your chance to discuss the unit to its fullest. So, please leave your comment!
This week's topic is - Salamander and Razordon Hunting Packs
Which pack is the best? Why would you take one over the other? Is the extra handler worth the points? How do you use them both on the table?
sorry the reply is a little late, but im glad to see these threads again.
- when asking the question are salamanders or razordons better, it really depends on the situation and what role need to be filled, because truly neither are the best. razordons are believe are best categorized as moving artillery, whereas salamanders are better said as harassers. some pros and cons may help decide this.
- cause a panic test to a unit on any wound
- has a -3 to armor save, with flaming attacks
- can flee which is part of being a harasser
- 5+ save, causes fear, and is aquatic
- work great with terradons which can move behind a panicking uint
- is also capable in combat against soft units (i.e. skirmishers)
- good against large block of cavalry, with high armor, and average toughness (i.e. brettonians)
- normal strength of 3 on breath weapon
- have low leadership while fleeing
- distance is at random (10" to 18")
- main target is only large block troops, has difficulty hitting small mobile units (i.e. fast cavalry)
- can eat its handlers which can ultimately cause control loss
- no range, or stand and shoot penalties
- no movement penalties paired with movement 6
- preset range of 12"
- strength 4 shots, plus its -1 to armor save
- double shot on stand and shoot
- 5+ save, causes fear, and is aquatic
- completely melts low armor units; harassers (i.e. fast cavalry, skirmishers)
- work great with large block troops, fires to soften up units, and few units will flank them
- also capable in combat against soft units
- range of 12" is a little low
- average of only 5 shots per razordon
- cannot flee, must always take stand and shoot reaction
- can pin cushion its handler on misfire
- has higher chance of misfire on stand and shoot reactions
- really it all depends on what you are up agianst, if you are going against an army with low to average leadership, such as skaven, goblins, human armies, and so on, which are concentrated into large block units, salamanders are the way to go. if you are going against any undead army, high leadership, wood elves, or just want to add an extra kick and flare to you crown unit, razordons will be your friend. i find its best to have both on hand for these varying situations, and if ever possible take both, people will hate you for it.
- extra handlers are an absolute must for both salamanders and razordons as they have the similar problem of misfires. one way to combat this is by adding a second salamander or razordon to the unit. this bring into question uint size. as salamanders are harassers, you do not want to invest too many points into them if the fly off the board, but you do want the alive as long as possible, so 1 salamander and 4 handlers would be best. for razordons you want a lots of firepower, but you do not want to suffer from lost of misfires that come with size, so 3 razordons and 12 handlers would work, though i prefer small more mobile units, so i go with 2 razordons and 6 to 8 handlers, depending on my list, but thats just a personal preference.
here are some tactics for both:
- as i have now probably said many times, salamanders, work as harassers, and well with terradons, (i suggest after they finish of war machines and such you pair them with salamanders.) have the salamanders cause mass panic and watch as the enemy runs into you unit of terradons helplessly.
- razordons can work in two ways, either as forward artillery, or as a defender/harasser killer. forward artillery is fairly self-explanatory. you can place them on the flanks to intercept harassers such as fast cavalry and skirmishers, or stronger units which you can soften up, and have some block troops come in for the kill; when placed on the flank i fell as though they work well with a small unit of skink for screening, support, and sometimes bait. you could also place the razordons on the flank of a unit, just ahead of them acting as ranged support, if an enemy unit charges they will have to go through a barrage of barbs, and the a counter charge for the paired unit, this all the while the flank is protected.
i do know that with the new rule book, rules for fear and panic, charging, shooting and template, stuff like that will change game play for these rare choices a little, but the general use of them will remain pretty much the same.
i hope this has provided some insight as to weather choose salamanders and razordons, in my mind they are both great units.
Camo has stated pretty well the characteristics of the units. The only thing I disagree with is the statement that they are both great units. In my opinion they are average units. A little to pricey for my taste. I think razordons need to fielded in units of three to get the best out of them, and that is a lot of points. Occasionally, I will field a unit of one salamander with extra handler. This is a decent price to pay for a bait and flee unit with a little utility use with the flame breath.
I am right 94% of the time, why worry about the other 3%.
when i said "great" i was just trying to sell the unit. and your right i wasn't really looking at them from a points standpoint, because yes they are rather pricey.
Single Salamanders are great annoyance/redirector units.
Single Salamander is the only way to go. Razordons losing all of their stand and shoot attacks on a single missfire is a huge turn off for me.
I realise this is ten days too late but I thought it better than starting a new thread.
Do Salamanders and Razordons count as skirmishers? If so, in 8th edition, surely they can march and fire(from what I've heard, I may have misunderstood) which would mean Razordons have an effective 24" range and salamanders can get in the flanks much quicker to spew fire over multiple units.
Not dead, just sleeping
that is the rumor i have been hearing about skirmishers, but remember they are only rumors. yes, this would make them even more effective, but the effective range for a razordon would be 18", you don't double the firing range. another rumor is that there will be no partial hits with templates making salamanders better. i don't know however, how exactly you would rank them up.
Not sure what draws a panic test int he new edition though. Misfiring and killing your own units thereby causing a panic test could suck. So maybe buying extra skinks could help with that.