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Howdy folks, just starting to get into WHFB although I've been a 40K player for a while. With extra Christmas Cash I've bought the Lizardman battalion and a stegadon to get my army started.
I've given the Lizardman armies book the once over and am ploughing through the warhammer rule book, but want to start making up some models as well so I'd appreciate a bit of help with some options so I don't go gluing on all the bad choice bits.
First of Saurus Warriors, I'm guessing the spears are a must have?
Stegadon - I'm going with Skink priest and EotG as I need to something to lead the army until I can get a Slann mage
Skinks are troubling me, I can't find any rules for the blowpipes (any help there?) but am thinking that the Javelin and shield is probably a better option anyway so that I can at least choose to make them skirmishers or not later on
As for other options, I guess a champion, standard bearer and musician are all must haves wherever possible?
Thanks in advance folks.
Well as most of the times, SirKently said it all
I do however want to add, that despite all the cons for taking a steg, its still worth its points! It can thunderstomp through most units as long as it charges!! (Terror-check > Impact hits > Hits > Thunderstomp) and if you can get it a bit of support in the enemy's flank, its all set to go!
Also another must have is the salamander. One is enough for 2000pts although up to 3 is viable These are great... simply great.
Thanks very much folks, that will see me on my way. Put the main part of the Steggie together last night and am really looking forward to the rest of the models.
Cheers, for the help, no doubt I'll be back again before long
A little tip, I used small magnets in my steg. This so that I can change key features that make him either and steg, ancient steg or an EOTG. It comes in handy when I want to try out a different setup or something
I dont know what continent your on, but I got them from here:
supermagnete - The Strongest Magnets in the World
(Sorry if this falls under ad right infringement or so, tell me and ill change it)
Thanks for the tip Guiding, I am making the model in stages so that I can see how easy it is to magnetise bits.
SirKently (or anyone), looking back at the Saurus warriors can I just check some info:
Hand weapon + shield = 6+ ward save in combat
Spear + Sheild = fight in extra rank (+1 point/model)
Can you explain why handweapons are better as the 6+ save doesn't seem to be as good as the extra rank of attacks, however I've never actually played yet so I bow to your superior experience.
Because the saurus get torn up when they come up against anything though or strong. Also instead of a 5 plus save with spears (without modifiers) which can hurt they then get a 4 plus save and the ward save of 6, they now stand their longer and can hit back with multiple ranks now anyway. since more stay alive and can still deal back a fearsome whack it makes them more likely to win combat on the rez side. Also even if they don't win it holds the enemy in place so you can smack them with something else.
Run a horde of saurus as your main battle ram and they can attack in 3 ranks with a good strength and still get good save. In a horde unit you would need 5 ranks to be effective with spears. As you get 3 ranks attacks and the fourth for the spear but since you will likely strike last the fourth rank would be picked apart meaning you need the fifth rank to ensure you get your spears worth when you get your turn to attack. If you get locked in attrition its likely by the time you get to attack for the second time the fourth rank would be gone or devastated meaning you have wasted a good 30 points at least on the rest of the unit which is going to still loose alot of men. Since you needed the extra rank to allow spears to survive you have wasted a full ranks worth of points anyway.
But with Hand wep sheild you get to stay alive longer being more combat effective longer, you need less ranks and you still deal fearsome damage. Pretty much to sum it up when the spear ranks effect is gone you have wasted points and have a weak in defence unit. But with hand wep sheild they stay combat effective far longer.
Even if you don't run a horde but a unit the same rule still applies, you need to spend extra points for a rank to die to allow one rank extra to make attacks, then when that rank is damaged the unit is no longer worth its points. With the hand wep sheild combo you dont need the extra rank, its cheaper, and they are far more combat effective the entire game. Also the rank that will get torn apart will effect you when it comes to combat rez.
Well thats my opinion at least, It may of come across as a ramble and somene else can probably explain it more clearly but thats why in my opinion hand wep shield beats spear.
"Reached under the bed and pulled out a Converse and a beer, I appear to of developed the miraculous power to turn shoes into beer!.... or beer into shoes." - Fallen Autarch after St. Patricks day.
Alright...I've been lurking here for a few weeks, and I've seen a few posts (elsewhere as well) that suggest that Saurus kitted with spears lose their shields (and therefore the parry save and +1 armor bonus). Only...I'm not seeing how that happens.
The Lizardmen army book and errata say nothing about losing a shield if spears are taken, and the 8th edition rule book and errata make no mention of shields requiring two hands to use. So, if I'm missing where the rule is located that says taking spears means losing the Saurus' shield, then please point me to where I can find it.
Otherwise, I'm not seeing how buying a spear isn't worth it unless you're saving the points for something else specific. In 6x4 formation, you're paying 6 extra points for 24 attacks instead of 18, and in a horde you're paying an extra 10 points for 50 attacks instead of 40, and if you have to take 5 ranks in the horde, then you're still essentially paying for the 4th rank's worth of attacks with one more rank that wouldn't get to attack (sme as if you only had hand weapon with 4 full ranks).
So I'm not seeing how Saurus with spears is a bad thing unless I'm missing some hidden rule or something...
You are correct that a warrior with a spear does not lose its shield. Either way the warriors have a 4+ AS.
Why do I like hand weapon and shield. Mainly because warriors are one of the better troop choices. Against weaker or similar blocks of troops, we don't need the extra attacks from the spears to win and/or hang around. Against the few stronger blocks of troops, the extra attacks don't help as much, and I prefer the saves. If they came in at the same price, then I would probably run a unit of each. The extra you pay for the spears though, in my opinion, isn't worth it.
I am right 94% of the time, why worry about the other 3%.
Keep the army cheap and you can bring alot more pain to people with more troops.