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  1. #1
    Member Zacatecas's Avatar
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    Scar-vet question

    Hey guys, I was talking about scar-vet builds with another lizardmen player this week, and a question came up. It is an option to add a halberd to a scar-vet. It is also an option to mount him on a cold one. Does this mean then that you can give him a halberd AND mount him on a cold one. We were both under the impression that cavalry couldnt use halberds, but there is no specific reference to this in any rules that we found, and the lizzy book doesnt specify either. Thanks in advance for any help .


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    is a Brother of Arterius Bleyden's Avatar
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    I use this guy as my general in 2000 point games (only he is an old blood). Personally I didnt know about the "no halberd on cavalry" rule and is this a rule that you presumed or is it in the new rule book. If it isnt an actual rule then use it!
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    This was discussed not too long ago.

    First off, where are you getting "No halberds on Cavalry" from? I'm not familiar with that rule in this, or last, or 4 editions ago (the main ones I'm familiar with).

    In this edition in particular if a model may take a Halberd, and may take a mount, unless something in the specific army book says otherwise (none do that I am aware of) he may take both, and get the same bonus as a great weapon (+1S), without the penelty. The book rules completely support this.

    The BrB makes it clear which weapons are CAv only, and which are Infantry only, and it makes it clear anything without that applies to all units.

    The Halberd rules apply to all units.

    No rule exists that says you can't take halberds mounted.

    So yes. You CAN take a Scar Vet, give him Itzl, give him a Cold One, and give him a Halbred and be +1S all the time as opposed to just on the charge with spears, or with strikes last like a GW.

    However keep in mind...
    The spear still can be mixed with a shield for a better armor save mounted
    The great weapon is still the superior choice on the ground/on foot in the vast majority of cases

    So the halberd isn't some super weapon either way. Either way you go it's a trade off. It does obsolete the great weapon mounted, but ONLY mounted, which is only fair since as 2 handed weapons go the great weapon obsoleted it on foot. They're balanced as choices. And mounted it's only useful after turn 1, and only if you're willing to give up a point of armor save. Again, balanced choice.

    Even though I brought the original topic up, and was pleasently surprised that the concensus was almsot universally "they can use halberds", I still use a shield/spear if I have to choose...
    The more I thought about it with Saur Cav, it's only the first charging turn I care about hitting power, because anything that doesn't fold to that is either so numerous and weak (horde) that S5 is fine next turn, or it's so tough that by god my hero and all his points value are gonna probably need that extra +1 armor save on subsequent turns.
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    Member Zacatecas's Avatar
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    Well we had assumed the "no mounted halberd" rule, because their is no specific rule saying whether cavalry can or cannot use halberds. Thank you very much for your help.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zacatecas View Post
    Well we had assumed the "no mounted halberd" rule, because their is no specific rule saying whether cavalry can or cannot use halberds. Thank you very much for your help.
    NP, but their are specific rules allowing them to be taken.

    They are options on the character. This allows them to be taken.

    The BrB makes it clear any weapon not specifically stated for one or the other works the same for both Cav and Foot.

    No specific rule states they may not be taken together.

    If a unit is allowed to take A
    And allowed to take B
    and nothing says otherwise... it can take both A and B, and use them simultaneously.

    By that same assumption that would lead to "no mounted halberds", no rule exists which specifically says mounted units may take ranged weapons like bows. I'm pretty sure they have the same generic entry as Halberds in the BrB.
    So if you're using that logic to say no halberds, you also must exclude ranged weapons on mounted characters and I'm sure some Wood Elf, Dark Elf, High Elf, and a few Empire players (and maybe TK I forget) will disagree with you.
    And actually... if you just bought the guy a mount, I'm pretty sure hand weapons w/o shields are given the same generic entry as Halberds. So you'd have to rule the character was unarmed. Which you can't do since the game says everyone has a hand weapon. Which means you've created a rules paradox.

    So again... pretty sure the rules clearly and cleanly allow it, and to rule otherwise would mean breaking, ignoring, or making several rules.


    Also if you're trying to the real life logic of "you can't effectivly use a halberd on a horse" just stop right there.
    Never, EVER, try and use real life logic to a Warhammer game. It's an automatic lose to the arguement without an in game rule to back it up.
    Warhammer must balance gameplay first, and THEN mesh with real life second. The designers try to mesh them as much as they can given the setting, but it's been made clear several times in the past the order of importance is game rules = first, if it makes sense IRL = second, when a conflict arises between the two.

    After all what's a geater leap of logic?
    That some dedicated warrior somewhere found a way to use a weapon in a way we never did in the real world? IE Greatweapons are allowed mounted too, and some mounted characters riding at full tilt are INSANELY accurate with ranged weapons in ways our best Snipers have never been (and Chaos Theory points out is impossible)?
    OR
    I play with a walking gecko that can shoot magic lightening bolts out his butt from a much bigger lizard that hangs nearby and is connected to the will of ancient gods.

    By my point of view, Halberds on Giant Carnivorous Lizards with Giant CArnivorous Lizard Mounts are down right sane and logical, AND fully backed by the rules, compared to Thunderbottom my Skink Priest and his big Slann brother (which are also fully ruled and legal in Warhammer)
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