Welcome to Librarium Online!
Join our community of 80,000+ members and take part in the number one resource for Warhammer and Warhammer 40K discussion!
Registering gives you full access to take part in discussions, upload pictures, contact other members and search everything!
Hey, I'm just getting into warhammer and have decided i'd like to play a lizardman army. After reading the book they look pretty good. I want to get a unit of cold one riders but they are really alot of points and I'm woried about the stupidity. For that many points I really don't want them to just sit there or worse get charged, especially if I put my general in the unit. So does this seem like too big of a problem? Also, how many should I put in the unit ( 5 or 10)
On another note I really like the carnosaur model and was thinking of mounting my general on one if I don't use the cold ones. Does this seem like a good idea. Any help is appreciated. Thanks.
after you get the oldblood on a carnosaur (360 pts.) with some items... (grt weapon, light armour, maiming shield) 399 pts you get about 40 cold ones, minus the three core skink groups required. The stupidity really does some damage, unless you put them in small groups, 5-7 models a unit. I would not recommend this on a fear causing army, that being one of the cold ones good points. so I don't know what you should do, but I've not liked the cold one army, for the unreliability factor.
Taste the rainbow!
(Plz don't sue)
1) Welcome to the Lizard Hordes.
2) I love Cold One Riders; they're easily my favorite unit. Stupidity is rarely a problem w/them given their cold-bloodedness; if you're a percentages person, it's less than a 10% probability (I seem to recall). I completely disagree w/the prior poster that stupidity costs. You're rolling three dice & you need to make an 8 on the two lowest. If you roll a 1 on any die, you've already made it.
I wouldn't make a Cold Ones army, as that would be too points intensive. However, an 8-lizard unit (8 for the weight + fear), has always served me well. In fact, in my 2250 point army, I have a unit of 8 & a unit of 7, w/a mounted character. The fear works very well, as it adds an extra hurdle to charge them & a way to make opponents run & die when they lose combat to the Riders (COR's movement rate means they'll run down most enemies). They're also bloody fast (relatively speaking) & hit really hard (S5 on the charge).
3) I use both a Carnosaur-riding General & two units of Cold Ones & I have 83 models in my heavily anti-magical (5-7 dispel dice) 2250 point army. So, it's not really an "either-or" proposition.
Dislike Terradons in small units, as they always lose the weight point, & their units typically wind up getting destroyed; if you play them, put at least 5 into the unit.
Love Kroxigors; Lizards have crummy initiative anyway, so their great weapons aren't a downside. Their only weakness is a relatively low WS.
Dislike Slann; they're just not my style. Too many hurdles to jump in one giant model for my tastes.
LOVE Salamanders! They don't need to roll to hit & they can smoke entire units in a single round.
Don't know about Stegadons (but would try them) or Swarms (not really interested there).
Hope that helps,
Bad Hat Harry
"Thanks for the help. By the way since you use a both a carnosaur and cold one riders which do you think is more effective? I can't carve out enough points for both."
It's hard to say. The Cold Ones have always seemed to be effective, regardless of whether I had a Carnosaur in the army. On the other hand, my Carnosaur & Oldblood tear apart whatever they go against. If I had to choose just one, I'd probably go w/the Cold Ones, but it would be a very close call.
1) The vast difference in point values means that you can take more models w/o a Carnosaur.
2) The two units kind of do the same thing w/respect to the fear & terror traits (albeit, the Carnosaur obviously does it a lot better). But again, you're getting the break in point values
3) Finally, savvy opponents will try to take out the Carnosaur from under its rider, which is a pain, and, in my experience, always resulted in the Oldblood's swift demise. If you mounted the Oldblood on a Cold One, you'll never have to worry about that possibility.
There are probably other reasons to take Cold Ones over Carnosaurs & there are certainly reasons to take a Carnosaur over Cold Ones (Carnosaur Oldblood + Sword o/t Hornet = surprised chargers!). However, for these purposes, that should be enough.
For what it's worth,
Bad Hat Harry
i have to agree with the last post..or the one before that...besides the armour i think cold ones are exactly what u want in cavarly..i mean fear its awsum..and i dont think stupidity isa problem as u roll three dice and choose the lowest 2..and im not so sure about my knowledge with the 7th edition rules but in the 6th edition could mounts not use riders leadership, so a scar veteran or watever ur takin has a lleadership of eight, so mathematicaly stupidity should not be a problem..i would definetly go with cold one unit over a carnosoaur..
cold one units can be really helpful, but i only usually use them in 2000+ games, cause they're so points-intensive. you may want to break them up into smaller units to help avoid stupidity, though i've never really found it to be much of a problem. just remember that their fear ability will be negated against larger units if they're in samll groups (i believe anyway, correct me if i'm wrong fear only works if you have a larger unit strength). i've never used a carnosaur in any battles before, but if you bring one, expect for most magic missiles and artillery to be aimed directly at the big guy.
cold ones can be really powerful on the charge, but if you bring a group of them be sure to keep them away from enemy shooting. for they're value, you can't afford for any of them to be taken out by enemy gunners or archers.
I have not been playing long...and my horrible dice rolls are legendary amongst my friends.
But my Cold One Riders never have a problem with Stupidity...until it will hurt the most when they fail. (
Saurus Cavalry is one of the greatest gifts ever given to LMen.
Stupidity isn't a real issue... 8 or below on best 2 of 3d6, and not after you're in combat, which shouldn't take you that long... statistically it'll get you once every 3rd, 4th game or so. 2nd/3rd if you loligag alot. Usually about 1/2 that time even it still won't totally screw you either (enemy can't charge them anyway or some such).
Their effect for points is one of the finest in the game, and one of the best in the Lman book. While army to army comparisons aren't always the best judge, just for the fun of it look at them compared to Cav of other armies. Little slower, often slightly weaker armor, but much better staying power, better attacking mounts, more of those devestating charge turn attacks combined with fear to force autobreaks, and T4.
Generally never put them in units of less then 6 to 8 unless they're only being used to flank (which I usually don't depend on Stupid units to do, as mentioned by others when THAT goes wrong, it really goes wrong). You want to have US on smaller enemy elite units so you can autobreak them with fear and that means your US usually needs to be 12-14 at least which means 6/7 Cav min.
Mounting characters I usually recommend Cold One over a Carnasaur. The Carnasaur rarely gets his points back. However if you're taking a Stegadon (or of more limited use in a REALLY big game a Slann) as well it can balance out since suddenly it's biggest drawback, being fed a steady diet of led by foes, starts to be countered.
That however is partly due to my overall view that monsterous creatures are rarely point effective mounts, especially in an army/on characters that had plenty of kill potential w/o it.
Though I do know some true masters of Terror of differant armies, who can just line things up to make it effect 2, 3 enemy units all the time. Those guys swear by monsters. So your own ability does dictate to some extent what's useful and not. I just find better use of those points elsewhere in my army (often, more Saur Cav to ride with the Hero/Lord!)
Except Kroq-Gar. He's my boy. He can Tear. Stuff. Up. And the all fast moving list he allows is devestating since so few players bother to do it so few foes are ready for it. Grym is the one Carnasaur that I can say I use often enough to say good dinosaur, now go put that dragon down and go play with their manticore/griffon/insert critter here.
Making Sisters of Battle into Women of Battle
Give a Rep Star if you like what someone said. Especially Me. I'm an unabashed Star whore. Blame my 2nd grade teacher and those stupid good behavior stickers. I'm just conditioned. I'm the Pavlov's Dog of stars.
You win with VP, NOT with kills