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Lord Adrianus · March 14th, 2008, 17:17

I've been busy assembling my new Orks and I now want to base them.

I took some very fine sand out of a bag we happened to have, and glued it on a "test" base (just with PVA glue) . The texture (is that the right word....?) looked really good but when I put some paint over it, it started to "crumble" off a bit. Does anyone know hot wo fix this or should I just get other sand?

Help is really welcome...

Adrianus

vikingboy6956 · March 14th, 2008, 18:25

I would say brush a very watered down layer of pva over it before you try painting maybe?? This will help seal it all together I would think, but I'm not experienced in basing so I could be wrong.

cybersharque · March 14th, 2008, 19:36

I find I get better results using coarse mason's bedding sand than fine. However, I also have a regiment of chaos knights based with fine sand, and I had the same problem with sand falling off. My solution--which I use on all sanded and gravelled bases now--is AFTER the glue had dried overnight, I dip the base in a dish filled with Future(R) Floor Finish. The same stuff that I use to dilute my paint and to make my inks stickier. I just saturate the base and the sand and put the model on a slick surface to dry again. The net result is that I end up with a layer of concrete on the base of the model. When using coarse sand, I find there's no need to paint the sand. I just paint the angled part of the base using whatever color is in use to unify the regiment/army and the base is done. Sometimes I just hit the sanded base with brown ink to heighten the contrast....but Future(R) is the solution to everything.

Lord Adrianus · March 14th, 2008, 19:56

Ok, I'm looking for something like that. Do you think something elso would suffice too? Like watered down PVA as vikingboy said?

wymic · March 14th, 2008, 21:34

I use Elmer's wood glue. After the glue dries I take an old brush and remove the loose grains before painting. After painting, I’ve had no problem with the sand coming off.

Inquisitor Blackadder · March 14th, 2008, 22:08

If using PVA, it is usually a good idea to give the sand a coat of watered down PVA to help secure it. I find that if there is enough water in the mix then you don't actually need to 'brush' the sand...if you just put the brush on the sand I find that it soaks up naturally. Otherwise, brushing over it will knock some sand off.
Hope you can make sense of this, I'm not good at communicating... lol

:happy:

Lord Adrianus · March 15th, 2008, 09:17

Ok, I'll try this today on another "test" base. See if it works.

How long should I let PVA dry BTW?

Inquisitor Blackadder · March 15th, 2008, 13:59

I usually do my painting and modelmaking in the evening, so personally I leave anything with PVA on to dry overnight. However it might take quicker, but I'm not sure myself.

:happy:

minus_t · March 16th, 2008, 01:08

PVA takes 3~4 hours to dry to a usable level, assuming it isn't too thick.

When it comes to basing, I always use PVA (white glue, wood glue etc etc), watered down slightly. Paint it over the base, dip in sand.
Wait 15-30 mins, then seal with much thinner (ie: more water added) PVA.

Leave 3~4 hours before priming, and Robert is your Mother's Brother.

-t.

rp252 · March 16th, 2008, 01:19

Monsieur_t does pretty much exactly what I do when basing - the second PVA layer helps bind the sand together and keep it on the base. Be sure to give it enough time to dry or else it'll all fall off and ruin your hard work.

Hope you have more luck in the future buddy

Rich.

March 14th, 2008, 17:17	#1 (permalink)
Lord Adrianus Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 125 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Rep Power: 22	Basing issues with very fine sand <a onclick="pageTracker._trackPageview ('/outgoing/http_d1_openx_org_ck_php_n_a83f474f_amp_cb_46587945173');" rel='nofollow' href='http://d1.openx.org/ck.php?n=a83f474f&cb=46587945173' target='_blank'><img src='http://d1.openx.org/avw.php?zoneid=22572&cb=46587945173&n=a83f474f' border='0' alt='' /></a> I've been busy assembling my new Orks and I now want to base them. I took some very fine sand out of a bag we happened to have, and glued it on a "test" base (just with PVA glue) . The texture (is that the right word....?) looked really good but when I put some paint over it, it started to "crumble" off a bit. Does anyone know hot wo fix this or should I just get other sand? Help is really welcome... Adrianus

March 14th, 2008, 22:08	#6 (permalink)
Inquisitor Blackadder Shiny! Join Date: May 2007 Location: There's no place I can be, since I've found Serenity. Age: 19 Posts: 933 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Rep Power: 45	If using PVA, it is usually a good idea to give the sand a coat of watered down PVA to help secure it. I find that if there is enough water in the mix then you don't actually need to 'brush' the sand...if you just put the brush on the sand I find that it soaks up naturally. Otherwise, brushing over it will knock some sand off. Hope you can make sense of this, I'm not good at communicating... lol :happy: __________________ Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.

March 15th, 2008, 13:59	#8 (permalink)
Inquisitor Blackadder Shiny! Join Date: May 2007 Location: There's no place I can be, since I've found Serenity. Age: 19 Posts: 933 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Rep Power: 45	I usually do my painting and modelmaking in the evening, so personally I leave anything with PVA on to dry overnight. However it might take quicker, but I'm not sure myself. :happy: __________________ Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.

March 16th, 2008, 01:08	#9 (permalink)
minus_t things will change Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: London Age: 24 Posts: 2,606 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Rep Power: 156 Total Awards: 4	PVA takes 3~4 hours to dry to a usable level, assuming it isn't too thick. When it comes to basing, I always use PVA (white glue, wood glue etc etc), watered down slightly. Paint it over the base, dip in sand. Wait 15-30 mins, then seal with much thinner (ie: more water added) PVA. Leave 3~4 hours before priming, and Robert is your Mother's Brother. -t. __________________ minus_t's painting log! Now with: Night Goblins and Machine-guns and Lightning, oh my! Last updated 14/11/09 "Never before has another man made me want to go out and buy vasaline"~The Paint Monkey "All I can remeber is Hazard stripes and -T's dusty brushes. ~danjones87

March 16th, 2008, 01:19	#10 (permalink)
rp252 Father of the Failed Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Holy Terra Age: 25 Posts: 1,181 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Rep Power: 69	Monsieur_t does pretty much exactly what I do when basing - the second PVA layer helps bind the sand together and keep it on the base. Be sure to give it enough time to dry or else it'll all fall off and ruin your hard work. Hope you have more luck in the future buddy Rich. __________________ "Praise" for rp252: Da Mighty Camel: No, for your information, rp252 is lonely because he is hideous Jaffar_Hasad: Behind his ugly bloodthirster face, there's some wisdom stored away for moments like this.

March 14th, 2008, 18:25	#2 (permalink)
vikingboy6956 Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Age: 26 Posts: 122 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Rep Power: 23	I would say brush a very watered down layer of pva over it before you try painting maybe?? This will help seal it all together I would think, but I'm not experienced in basing so I could be wrong.

March 14th, 2008, 19:36	#3 (permalink)
cybersharque Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 10 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Rep Power: 40	I find I get better results using coarse mason's bedding sand than fine. However, I also have a regiment of chaos knights based with fine sand, and I had the same problem with sand falling off. My solution--which I use on all sanded and gravelled bases now--is AFTER the glue had dried overnight, I dip the base in a dish filled with Future(R) Floor Finish. The same stuff that I use to dilute my paint and to make my inks stickier. I just saturate the base and the sand and put the model on a slick surface to dry again. The net result is that I end up with a layer of concrete on the base of the model. When using coarse sand, I find there's no need to paint the sand. I just paint the angled part of the base using whatever color is in use to unify the regiment/army and the base is done. Sometimes I just hit the sanded base with brown ink to heighten the contrast....but Future(R) is the solution to everything.

March 14th, 2008, 19:56	#4 (permalink)
Lord Adrianus Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 125 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Rep Power: 22	Ok, I'm looking for something like that. Do you think something elso would suffice too? Like watered down PVA as vikingboy said?

March 14th, 2008, 21:34	#5 (permalink)
wymic Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 59 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Rep Power: 29	I use Elmer's wood glue. After the glue dries I take an old brush and remove the loose grains before painting. After painting, I’ve had no problem with the sand coming off.

March 15th, 2008, 09:17	#7 (permalink)
Lord Adrianus Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 125 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Rep Power: 22	Ok, I'll try this today on another "test" base. See if it works. How long should I let PVA dry BTW?

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