Just a quick question about Eldar. I have head a lot about how cheesy they can be and am quite curious to know what a really cheesy list would constitute. Thanks for any replies.
More seriously the one unit people complain about is the falcon. Because they want it to drop as easily as a dreadnaught with its 12AV armor, but then, while trivial to shake, it turns out to be a little harder than a landraider to kill. And, unlike the landraider a falcon is best killed with multiple sources of mid/mid-high power weapons instead of, say, a small number of str10 shots people are used to dropping a vehicle with. Making it hard to kill for some common builds.
This is very far from cheesy, I'm sorry but it must be some pretty new generals there. this list has absolutely no mobility or the firepower or the model count to win games. Sorry mate, but play mech tau, imperial guard or any horde army and this would get utterly crushed
Not necessarily - 2 wraithlords (while not as uber as they used to be) can still be a major pain to take care of, and 20 pathfinders aren't goint anywhere quickly and the law of averages states that the amount of pinning tests you will have to make means that you won't be either.
This army would absolutely own any Space Marine, Chaos, Inquisitor, TMC, Deathwing, Ravenwing army out there.
DieHardSaintKildaSupporter
I will have to argue that point. the list does not need mobility it can destroy hord lists very easily due to dark reaper firepower... Tyranid lists require power in numbers to kill enemies. and the usual nid list takes hormaguants which are always dealt with by the harlequins as soon as they are in range. everything else slowly gets shot by the snipers whilst not dealing much damage they do enough. although yes there are problem's agaisnt imperial guard my tank busting abilities are rather low...
I saw this one at a tourney which had 3 falcons, each with 6 harlies, eldarad ulthran, pathfinders, and warp spiders. Everybody who played him was calling cheese.
ok not sure many people who actually look at it call eldar cheesey anymore, in the old codex accusations of cheese used to surround the star cannon and the wraithlord, both are now fixed.
when the new codex came out, cries of cheese were leveled at harlequins, however this is clearly done by the "paper gamers" anyone with practical experiance knows that harleys are dead meat against mobile shooty units or drive bys and that they are almost as stressful to use as to fight against
Accordingly there isnt really a cheesy eldar list, although 30 harley on the field to probably merrit it
Thread moved as it isnt asking for an army list review
Although I only stoop to calling them cheese in my most frustrated moments, three bloody Falcons and/or Fire Prisms with Holo Fields gets pretty annoying pretty quick.
Bloody irritating perhaps, but not really cheese in itself as they have armies they're mostly ineffective against. Speaking of which, I can't wait to break some of the stupid things with a shock load of Lootas. With that many shots those Holo Fields won't save you. ^__^
The main abuses of the Eldar codex have already been listed but I don't think these armies constitute an "auto-win" button by themselves, except in casual play. The problem with Eldar is that they are a very frustrating army to play against (as they should be) and it can really push some people over the edge. I can't say I've ever called cheese (I tend to get more angry at myself for losing than my opponent's army) but I can definitely see why people would say that. That's not to say that you shouldn't make a good list but you might want to lay off the Falcons for a little while, maybe one or two at most so that people won't get too annoyed. I must say I'm quite happy to shake them every turn and I'm more scared of what's inside them than anything else.
ok to illustrate Rabbit very good point, at our local indie stockist last night, 3000 points battle with 4 players on each side, on the "baddies" side is a lad who plays chaos, he is terrible at picking armies, he plays badly, and he decides to charge GK termie squad with a grand master with a small raptor squad, the outcome was rather unsurprising, he then strops around saying how bad chaos are!
Chaos are not bad, eldar are not cheesey "A bad workman always blames his tools" (or his opponents)
And that might be part of Eldars problem with getting called cheese these days.
I'm sure you've all fought a SPAEC MAREINS general at some point. While we probably picked up a few like that when the new dex came out, Eldar generals don't tend to be that way.
Also the wraith list from earlier is not cheesy. Many other Eldar forces would probably make a mockery of it. My guess is that he's playing a lot of opponents with "march up the middle" MEQ type armies.
Oh, one other thing. There is a trend to make Eldar fire lots of poor AP shots. This weakens us against the common MEQ armies. But some non MEQ armies are in for a world of hurt.
Ah the good old flying circus... Not that I play anything like it...
Honestly I'm amazed more people don't cry "cheese" on what you can do with WW squads. 3 WWs with dual starcannons or scatter lasers, and a guiding farseer, is just wrong. Especially when you deploy them in full view then scout move them behind cover before the game starts. Come to think of it, I might have to do that in my next couple of games... Might draw some attention away from the Falcons next time I play them.
Or, if you've got the massive cash, try a ghost army now that WG are T6. I'm sure that will get a few cries.
Ehe, warwalkers are nice. But they still go down easy, and if you get to kill something it doesn't feel so bad,even if it hurt you bad first. And killing 5 marines a turn is nice, but at ~300 points for walkers and seer it doesn't seem broken compared to a battlecannon or two.
Does an army with all jetbikes and wypers spell cheese?
I've been considering such an army (just for fun) but if people would disagree with such a setup it would be kind of pointless since the point is to play.
It will depend on your opponent. If you opponent is still able to close with you, for example other eldar, you'll go down. But if they're playing a static or low modility list than you'll mop them up . Vypers just aren't the same anymore without starcannons and Crystal Targeting Matricies. Not cheese
nah cheese was Siam Hann with 18 vypers all with star cannon,
The eldar jetbike has generally been considered naff by most players for a good 10 years, the recent codex made no real change to it, however people are learning not to under estimate them. A bike/walker/vyper army isnt cheese, it is fluffy for Siam Hann for example
So if I'm not after as many starcannons as possible, but simply want everything to fly very fast, and keep upgrades reasonable, (one still needs some way to take down tanks and big nasty bugs with) there should be no serious objections?
Wow, that was a lot of answers while I was typing...
star cannons were considered cheesey in the old codex, now you pay more points for fewer shots they are not.
I play two eldar bike armies and have never had trouble with opponents calling them cheese, bikes are 150% the price of a tac marine, they have the same resistance to damage but are far worse in combat, they are not cheese.
When others have used my bikes, which has happened twice, on one occasion against me with marines and I won
I actually started playing Eldar since they seemed the most fun to play. Fun in this case being an army with a whole lot of mobility where tactics are king. Eldar do not(typically) just sit and shoot or charge forward until they get into close combat, you're always having to think about your next move, and exactly how many inches to move your vehicles and such. I've been very pleased at how different each game has been.
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